>>> WHAT TO DO ABOUT OHIO'S RISING PROPERTY TAXES.

>>> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD," I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

OHIO IS IN THE EARLY STAGES OF A MAJOR FIGHT OVER PROPERTY TAXES.

THANKS LARGELY TO RAPIDLY RISING HOME VALUES, PROPERTY TAXES HAVE JUMPED, ON AVERAGE, ABOUT 25%-30% IN RECENT YEARS.

HOMEOWNERS ARE MAD -- ESPECIALLY THOSE ON FIXED INCOMES, WHO HAVE NO PLANS TO MOVE, AND CASH IN ON THEIR HOME'S EQUITY.

AS PART OF THE STATE BUDGET, LAWMAKERS TRIED TO TINKER WITH THE SYSTEM, IN THE HOPES OF SLOWING OR REVERSING THE PROPERTY TAX INCREASES.

GOVERNOR DEWINE VETOED THOSE LINE ITEMS, AND NOW LAWMAKERS STAND READY TO OVERRIDE THOSE VETOES.

A PROPOSED CONSITUTIONAL AMENDMENT TO COMPLETELY ELIMINATE PROPERTY TAXES LOOMS.

A COUPLE STATE LAWMAKERS PROPOSE CAPPING PROPERTY TAXES AT A PRETTY LOW PRECENTAGE.

AND THIS WEEK, GOVERNOR DEWINE FORMED A WORKING GROUP TO help FIND A SOLUTION.

>> ANDREW TOBIAS, FIRST TO THE OVERRIDES, DO YOU THINK THE HOUSE AND SENATE WILL SUBSIDE IN OVERRIDING THE GOVERNOR'S VETO?

WILL WE SEE THAT IN OUR PROPERTY TAX BILLS?

>> I THINK THE CHANGES ARE PROBABLY IMBALANCED, PROBABLY MORE LIKELY TO REDUCE THE RATE OF INCREASES IN THE FUTURE.

THERE IS ONE THAT SOME COUNTY ELECTED OFFICIALS COULD UNILATERALLY DECIDE TO LOWER TAXES, IF THEY WANT, WHICH IS PRETTY MODEST.

IT IS MORE TRIMMING AROUND THE EDGES.

THERE IS A PROVISION OF SOMETHING MUCH BROADER, BUT THAT ONE DOESN'T SEEM TO HAVE THE POLITICAL SCORE RIGHT NOW TO BE OVERTURNED, BUT YEAH, IT IS SOMETHING --IT MIGHT HELP NEXT TIME HE COMES AROUND, BUT IT ALSO MEANS LESS MONEY FOR SCHOOLS.

>> IS THERE ROOM IN THE BUDGET, TERRY?

>> THIS IS ALL DRIVEN BY THE FEAR OF THAT CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT THAT WOULD WIPE OUT PROPERTY TAXES TOTALLY.

THEY FEEL LIKE IF THEY DO SOME THINGS, MAYBE THAT WILL LESSEN THE ANGER, BUT THE PROBLEM IS, THIS HAS BEEN DECADES IN THE MAKING BECAUSE THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY IN THE LAST 20 OR 30 YEARS HAS GIVEN TOO MUCH POWER TO SOME UNITS OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, TO GO TO THE LOCAL TAXPAYERS.

THEN, THERE ARE OTHER THINGS CALLED TAX ABATEMENTS, WHICH ARE OUT OF CONTROL, IN MY OPINION, AND WE NEED TO LOOK AT SOME ELEMENTS OF GOVERNMENT, WHETHER THERE IS TOO MUCH OVERLAP OR THERE CAN BE MORE EFFICIENCIES.

SO, YOU CAN'T SOLVE IT IN A BILL OR TWO, YOU CAN'T SOLVE IT IN A YEAR OR TWO.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WOULD ELIMINATE THE REPLACEMENT --I DON'T WANT TO GO INTO DETAILS, THAT IS VERY COMPETENT, BUT THAT IS WHAT THE FUNDING AGENCIES ARE WORRIED ABOUT, RIGHT, JESSIE?

>> I THINK WHAT LAWMAKERS ARE TRYING TO GET AT IS MORE TRANSPARENCY FOR THE VOTERS SO THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE VOTING ON, AND FEWER THINGS THAT ARE JUST AUTOMATICALLY GOING TO INCREASE OVER TIME, SO PART OF THAT IS MAKING SOME OF THESE CHANGES, THERE.

BUT, THE WATER THING THAT PROBABLY DOESN'T HAVE THE POLITICAL SUPPORT RIGHT NOW IS SOMETHING THEY WERE TRYING TO REDUCE THIS CARRYOVER RATES FOR SCHOOL DISTRICTS, BASICALLY SITTING AT 40%.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT SCHOOL DISTRICTS WERE PRETTY UPSET ABOUT IT AND PRETTY CONCERNED ABOUT.

THAT IS NOT ON THE LIST, OF THE THREE VETOES WE ARE LOOKING AT, YET.

SO, WE WILL SEE IF SOMETHING MORE WIDESPREAD COMES, DOWN THE LINE.

>> SO, WHAT YOU THINK, SAM?

WORKING GROUP, GOVERNOR DEWINE'S WORKING GROUP, HE JUST NAMED ANOTHER ONE, DO YOU EXPECT ANYTHING BOLD TO COME OUT OF THIS ONE?

>> NO, I WILL SAY VERY SIMPLY.

THIS IS THE RESULT OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF MESSING WITH THE TAX STRUCTURE ACROSS THE STATE.

EVERYTHING FROM SALES TAX, INDIVIDUAL TAX, CORPORATE TAX --THEY ARE MUCKING WITH IT.

NOW, WHAT CAUSES THE SERIOUS PROBLEM, IS THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM.

WHAT IT DOES TO THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM.

THE LACK OF MONEY THAT PEOPLE HAVE ON A LOCAL LEVEL, TO EDUCATE OUR KIDS.

I DON'T THINK THIS ADMINISTRATION, OR ANY REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION, IS WILLING TO DO WHAT IS NECESSARY.

AND ONE OF THOSE IS RAISE TAXES FOR CORPORATIONS AND HIGH INCOME INDIVIDUALS, TO BALANCE THE SCENARIO ON THE INCOME, BUT THEY ARE NOT WILLING TO DO THAT.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

>> BUT, SHOULDN'T THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR OPERATING EFFICIENTLY --CLOSING SCHOOLS, LOOKING AT COLUMBUS, THINGS LIKE THAT?

>> YEAH, THAT'S TRUE.

BUT, THE STATE ALSO HAS A COMMITMENT.

DO YOU REMEMBER THE SCHOOL CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT, WHERE THEY FOUND THEM GUILTY?

BUT, THAT DIDN'T REALLY SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

THE SCHOOLS HAVE TO LASS THEM OUT TO GET SOME MONEY, IT IS ALL ABOUT TRICKLE DOWN AND TRICKLE DOWN HAS NEVER WORKED.

>> AND WITH THE SCHOOLS, WE HAVE 611 SCHOOL DISTRICTS, 611 SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENTS, CLERKS, TREASURERS, ET CETERA, IN 88 COUNTIES.

THAT TELLS YOU RIGHT THERE THERE IS SOME PROBLEMS, AND PEOPLE LIKE THEIR FIEFDOMS, BUT ARE THEY WILLING TO CONTINUE PAYING FOR CERTAIN OVERLAPS IN CERTAIN EATING EFFICIENCIES, WHEN SCHOOL DISTRICTS OPERATE WITH 600, 800 KIDS, K-12.

>> I LOOKED THROUGH MY PROPERTY TAXES BILL TODAY JUST TO SEE HOW IT IS BROKEN DOWN.

MY TAX BILL IS BROKEN DOWN BETWEEN 12 DIFFERENT AGENCIES.

LET ME LIFT THEM.

CHILDREN'S SERVICES, THE CITY WHERE I LIVE, COLUMBUS STATE, THE COUNTY, FRANKLIN COUNTY, ALSO THE COUNTY DEVELOP MENTAL DISABILITY BOARD, JOINT VOCATIONAL SCHOOL, METRO SCHOOL DISTRICT, OF COURSE, SENIOR OPTIONS, MIKE TOWNSHIP, AND THE COLUMBUS ZOO.

THAT'S A LOT OF TAXING AGENCIES, ALL GOING FOR LEVY EVERY FEW YEARS.

IS THERE ANY TALK ABOUT CHANGING THAT SYSTEM?

>> THE SHORT ANSWER IS, "NO. "

I APPLAUD YOU FOR LOOKING AT THE FINE PRINT IN YOUR TAX BILL, THAT MUST HAVE TAKEN SOME REAL SQUINTING TO SEE THAT STUFF.

BUT, OUR TAX SYSTEM IN OHIO IS COMP LOCATED.

AS A REPORTER, I TRY TO EXPLAIN IT, WE ARE TRYING TO TALK ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW IN A WAY THAT MAKES SENSE AND IT IS NOT EASY TO DO.

ALL OF THE DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS PEOPLE HAVE TO FUND AND DIFFERENTIATE FROM EACH OTHER.

>> AND THERE IS A REDUCTION, A HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION, AND ALL OF THESE OTHER THINGS, IT IS COMPLICATED.

>> IT IS COMPLICATED.

THE GOOD NEWS IS THERE WAS HOUSE BILL 920 BACK IN '76 WHICH REQUIRED WHEN YOU PASS A LEVY, IT MUST BE REDUCED SO THAT IT YIELDS A FLATLINE OF MONEY EXCEPT FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION.

SO, THERE IS A LOT OF COMPLICATION, A LOT OF CONFUSION, BUT IT ALSO ADDS TO THE THING CALLED COLLECTIVE BARGAINING.

IF YOU SAW THIS WEEK'S SOUTHWESTERN SCHOOL GOT A SETTLEMENT WITH ALL OF THEIR EMPLOYEES, OVER THREE YEARS, IT WILL COST THEM ABOUT 11% TO 12% MORE.

CERTAINLY, THEY ARE HARD- WORKING AND DESERVE MORE MONEY, BUT WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR THAT?

BECAUSE THE STATE REVENUE IS NOT GROWING.

THE PROPERTY TAX DOESN'T GROW AT 11% OR 12% OVER THE NEXT THREE YEARS.

>> TAXES HAVE GONE UP, AS WE SAID, 25% TO 30% OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS.

THAT IS HIGHER THAN THE RATE OF INFLATION, WHICH WOULD PAY FOR A 3% RAISE, 4% RAISE.

WHERE HAS THAT MONEY GONE?

WE ARE PAYING ALL THIS MONEY, WE DON'T KNOW WHERE IS --WHERE IS THIS MONEY?

>> IT IS LIKE WHEN YOU ARE ITEMIZING THE THINGS, I THINK INDIVIDUALLY, PEOPLE ARE LIKE, "YEAH, SURE, I WANT TO SUPPORT THE ZOO, OR WATER," OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER IS ELSE IS ON THE BALLOT, I THINK IT JUST ADDS UP SOMETIMES.

>> I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING WE ARGUE ABOUT, AND TERRY STARTED IT OUT, IT IS THESE RUDE DEFICIENCIES IN SCHOOLS.

THERE IS NO SUCH THINGS.

THINGS CHANGE TO FAST, THE DYNAMICS AND STRUCTURE, THE LACK OF SUPPORT FROM STATE GOVERNMENT.

IT IS THE SAME THING AT GOVERNMENT.

WHAT PEOPLE DON'T REMEMBER ABOUT ME, I WAS CHIEF OF STAFF FOR THE COUNTY TREASURER, HERE IN FRANKLIN COUNTY.

SO, COLLECTING THE MONEY WAS MY JOB AND DISTRIBUTING THE MONEY WAS ALSO MY JOB.

IT IS AN INVESTMENT.

IF YOU DON'T WANT TO INVEST, DON'T.

>> THAT'S THE ULTIMATE BOTTOM LINE, RIGHT, ANDREW?

TAXES ARE HIGH BECAUSE PEOPLE APPROVE LEVIES.

>> THERE IS A CERTAIN FLOOR, BUT AFTER THAT, THEY NEED VOTER APPROVAL, AND THE SCHOOLS, AND THE ZOO, AND MRDD, WHATEVER IT IS CALLED NOW, SAYS YOU HAVE TO GO IN AND SAY YES.

>> AND AS REPORTED, IN COMMUNITIES WHERE THEY DON'T HAVE THAT TAX SPACE, DOES THAT MEAN THERE ARE NOT SUPPORT SERVICES --AS I HAVE BEEN REPORTING RECENTLY, THERE IS NOT A GREAT PUBLIC SUPPORT FOR ADDICTION SERVICES, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, SO IT IS A TRADE- OFF.

WHAT KIND OF GOVERNMENT DO PEOPLE WANT TO PAY FOR?

>> WE ARE SEEING IT IN TEXAS WITH THE WARNING SYSTEM FOR STORMS.

THEY SAID NOT TO DO IT.

>> BUT, THERE IS EFFICIENCY TO BE HAD, FOR EXAMPLE, CENTRAL OHIO, ALL THE LIBRARIES HERE, ALL THE DIFFERENT DISTRICTS COOPERATE ON ONE DATABASE SO YOU CAN SEE 4 MILLION DIFFERENT ITEMS.

SO, THERE ARE WAYS YOU CAN BE MORE EFFICIENT.

INCORRECTLY LIKE YOU MENTIONED, THE SCHOOLS THAT CONTINUE OPERATING, A LOT OF HIGH SCHOOLS AT HALF CAPACITY, MAYBE.

THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER THINGS, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THEIR WEBSITE, YOU SEE FOUR DIFFERENT PEOPLE, TOP LEVEL JOBS, ALL IN CHARGE OF INNOVATION, OR STRATEGY, OR SOME OTHER KIND OF VAGUE STUFF.

BELIEVE ME, THERE ARE WAYS TO CUT AND TRIM IF THEY WANTED TO GO AFTER BUREAUCRACY.

>> THIS IS A TOPIC THAT WILL NOT GO AWAY, AND IT SEEMS LIKE THAT BALLOT ISSUE WILL HAPPEN NEXT FALL.

ANYWAY -- >>> NOT THAT THERE WAS MUCH DOUBT, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE MONEY WILL NOT BE AN ISSUE FOR VIVEK RAMASWAMY'S CAMPAIGN FOR GOVERNOR.

THE REPUBLICAN'S FORMAL CAMPAIGN HAS RAISED A RECORD NEARLY $10 MILLION SINCE HE ANNOUNCED HIS BID, IN FEBRUARY.

HIS AFFILATED PAC IS RAISING MONEY.

AND RAMASWAMY, WHO IS WORTH AN ESTIMATED $1 BILLION, TOLD FOX NEWS THAT HE WILL SPEND UP TO $30 MILLION OF HIS OWN MONEY ON HIS CAMPAIGN.

RAMASWAMY IS THE ONLY MAJOR REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IN THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR.

AS OF TODAY, HE WOULD FACE AMY ACTON, THE ONLY DECLARED DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE.

OF COURSE, DEMOCRATS AWAIT SHERROD BROWN'S DECISION ON HIS POLITICAL FUTURE.

TERRY, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS FUNDRAISING BONANZA?

OF VIVEK RAMASWAMY?

>> IT IS PARTIALLY TO SEND A MESSAGE TO SHERROD, "WHY DON'T YOU RUN FOR SENATE? "

BECAUSE IT IS DIFFERENT, RAISING MONEY IN OHIO, BECAUSE LIBERALS ON THE EAST COAST AND WEST COAST DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT GOVERNOR OF OHIO.

THEY DO CARE ABOUT SENATOR.

SO, RAMASWAMY IS SAYING, SHERROD, WHY DON'T YOU RUN FOR SENATE INSTEAD OF GOVERNOR?

AND SHERROD, EVERY DAY, EVERY WEEK HE WAITS, IT MAKES IT TOUGHER TO CATCH UP ON MONEY, BUT HE IS DEFINITELY CAUGHT UP IN THE MIDDLE, IF HE DECIDES TO RUN OR IF HE DECIDES TO SPEND MORE TIME WITH HIS GRANDCHILDREN.

>> SO, YOU THINK IT IS SHERROD BROWN, NOT JIM WHO IS THINKING ABOUT RUNNING?

>> I THINK THE MESSAGE COULD GO TO MULTIPLE PEOPLE AT THE SAME TIME AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT THE RAMASWAMY CAMPAIGN IS TRYING TO SAY.

LOOK, WE HAVE THE ENDORSEMENTS OF PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP, THE OHIO REPUBLICAN PARTY, WHICH HE GOT A YEAR IN ADVANCE.

HE HAS LINED UP THE SUPPORT ON THE FUNDRAISING SIDE.

AND SO, I THINK HE IS REALLY TRYING TO PROJECT THIS STRENGTH AND INEVITABILITY TO HIS CAMPAIGN, TO EITHER TRUSSELL OR BROWN.

>> THIS IS A GREAT AMPLE EXAMPLE OF DIVERSITY IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN OHIO.

WE WILL SEE IF IT WORKS.

I HAVE TALKED TO A LOT OF WHITE REPUBLICANS AND A LOT OF BLACK REPUBLICANS, AND IN THE FIELD, THEY ARE NOT READY FOR THIS GUY.

AND THEY ARE REALLY UPSET, AS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL DIDN'T REALLY GET A SHOT, RAMASWAMY WENT TO THE BOARD.

NOT TO THE PEOPLE, IN A PRIMARY, TO GET SELECTED.

THERE IS STUFF ABOUT THAT.

SO, I'M NOT SURE IF THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN THE WAY PEOPLE THINK IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN, BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE IF THEY ARE READY FOR A BROWN MAN TO BE GOVERNOR OF OHIO.

>> TERRY?

>> I'M SURPRISED, SAM, THAT YOU WOULD BRING RACE INTO THE ISSUE, BECAUSE I THINK ONE OF THE OTHER DYNAMICS SHERROD HAS TO CONSIDER, SHERROD, AND HIS AGE IN POLITICS, HE IS NOT IN HIS 20s, HE'S MOVING INTO HIS MID-70s, HE HAS BEEN IN POLITICS FOREVER.

RAMASWAMY IS AGE 39, THERE IS A GENERATIONAL DIFFERENCE.

SO, THERE IS A LOT OF FACTORS, I'M NOT SURE RACE WILL BE THAT BIG OF A FACTOR.

>> YOU THINK REPUBLICANS WILL LOOK PAST HIS RACE, AND LOOK AT HIS ENTREPRENEUR CAREER?

>> AND THAT HE IS AN AGENT OF CHANGE AND PART OF THE THING THAT HAPPENED THAT SUNK THE DEMOCRATS NATIONALLY IS PEOPLE WANTED A CHANGE FROM WHAT THEY VIEWED AS BIDEN AND THE DEMOCRATS BEING THERE TOO LONG, SO THERE IS A LOT OF ISSUES, A LOT OF FACTORS.

AND BY THE WAY, I WILL PUT IN HERE AN EARLY PREDICTION, JIM TRUSSELL SAID IN JULY HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS GOING TO BE DOING, I THINK HE WILL BE ANNOUNCING HE LIKES BEING LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR AND DOESN'T WANT TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR BECAUSE HE REALIZES THE JOB AND THE CAMPAIGN WOULD BE QUITE A TASK.

>> COULD RAMASWAMY'S FUNDRAISING AND WEALTH BACKFIRE?

>> YES.

>> THERE'S A LOT OF TALK OF, YOU KNOW, THE OLIGARCHY, THINGS LIKE THAT.

IS THAT A POSSIBILITY -- THAT A DEMOCRAT WOULD RUN AGAIN, OR SHERROD BROWN WOULD RUN AGAIN.

>> WHAT COMES TO MIND FOR ME IS J. D. VANCE IN 2022 ESPECIALLY WHERE HE HAD FUNDING FROM ONE PERSON, SO HE WASN'T THE WEALTHY, SELF- FUNDED TO THE EXTENT THAT WE MIGHT SEE RAMASWAMY DO IT, BUT I THINK IT IS A PLACE DEMOCRATS ARE VERY COMFORTABLE.

THEY WANT TO SAY THAT THEY ARE FOR THE WORKING MAN AND THIS RICH GUY IS TRYING TO BUY THE ELECTION, AND THINGS LIKE THAT, SO IT COULD BE A PROBLEM.

ALTHOUGH, ULTIMATELY, I THINK IF A CANDIDATE WOULD PREFER TO HAVE A BUNCH OF MONEY, AND THEN NOT HAVE ANY MONEY, I THINK THEY WOULD RATHER TAKE THE MONEY.

>> SURE.

HE DOESN'T NEED ALL OF THE MONEY RAMASWAMY NEEDS, TO BE COMPETITIVE, IN THAT RACE?

>> WELL, IT IS GOING TO BE A SWITCH, BECAUSE OF HIS CAMPAIGN HISTORY, CONGRESS, SENATOR, ET CETERA, BASED ON BEING A FEDERAL CANDIDATE.

SHIFTING TO GOVERNOR IS VERY DIFFERENT.

YES, HE RAN THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE WAY BACK WHEN, BUT THAT IS A SMALL, TINY OFFICE.

RUNNING GOVERNOR, WORRIED ABOUT THE ROADS, PRISONS, MENTAL HEALTH, SCHOOLS, ALL OF THOSE ISSUES IS VERY DIFFERENT, AND TAKES A LOT MORE WORK FOR GOVERNOR THAN IT DOES, SENATOR.

>> BUT, RAMASWAMY HASN'T WORKED IN GOVERNMENT AT ALL EXCEPT FOR LIKE TWO WEEKS WITH DOGE.

>> RIGHT, BUT PEOPLE ALSO SOMETIMES SAY, WE LIKE FRESH PEOPLE FROM THE OUTSIDE.

>> I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE.

THE SYSTEMIC RACISM AND BIGOTRY THAT EXISTS IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN THE STATE OF OHIO IS GOING TO ALLOW THEM TO OVERLOOK THIS BROWN MAN?

I DON'T BELIEVE IT.

>> JESSIE, WHAT IS THE TIMETABLE ON SHERROD BROWN.

ANY SPECULATION?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK AFTER FOURTH OF JULY, HE HAD A HOT DOG AND A BROAD WITH YOUR FAMILY, SOME NICE CONVERSATIONS, PERHAPS WE WILL LEARN SOMEWHAT SOON.

>> YES.

THE DEMOCRATS ARE WAITING.

THEY ARE ALL IN A HOLDING PATTERN UNTIL HE DECIDES, RIGHT, ANDREW?

>> SOON, HE WILL BE ON THIS SHOW.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

WE WILL KEEP TALKING ABOUT IT, KEEP SPECULATING.

THAT'S WHAT WE DO, HERE.

ANYWAY -- >>> THE STATE OF OHIO IS OFFERING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO SUPPORT THE CONSTRUCTION OF AN ADVANCED MANUFACTURING PLANT.

THE COMPANY PROMISES THOUSANDS OF JOBS, WITH SIX FIGURE SALARIES.

AND, CONSTRUCTION WILL BEGIN VERY SOON.

IT'S A RECORD AWARD TO GET A COMPANY TO LOCATE IN OHIO, AND THE TECHNOLOGY HAS NOT PROVEN SUCCESSFUL, YET.

SOUNDS FAMILIAR.

BUT, IT'S NOT THE INTEL DEAL.

IT'S THE TAXPAYER SUPPORTED AGREEMENT WITH ANDURIL.

THE COMPANY PLANS TO BUILD A PLANT NEAR RICKENBACKER AIRPORT TO MANUFACTURE MILITARY DRONES AND A.I.

BASED WEAPONS SYSTEMS.

THIS WEEK, JOBSOHIO ANNOUNCED A $310 MILLION GRANT.

THAT BRINGS THE STATE'S TOTAL SUPPORT TO MORE THAN $800 MILLION.

JESSIE BALMERT, THE INTEL PROJECT IS NOT GOING QUITE AS PLANNED, BUT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE DISSUADING THE STATE FROM TAKING ANOTHER RISK ON THIS COMPANY.

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT'S A FAIR WAY TO WRAP IT UP.

I THINK THE STATE AND JOBSOHIO IN PARTICULAR REALLY ENJOY THESE BIG, FLASHY, "LET'S BRING JOBS TO OHIO" DEALS.

THEY LOOK GREAT IN THE BEGINNING, AND THEN LATER WE FIND OUT IF THEY WILL SUCCEED IN A FEW YEARS AND THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN FULLY SEEING WITH INTEL.

AND IT IS TOO SOON TO SAY, WITH ANDURIL.

IT IS HARD TO CRITICIZE THESE THINGS AT THE OUTSET BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE JOBS AND INDUSTRY, AND INTERESTING THINGS TO THE STATE OF OHIO, AND THEN YOU JUST HAVE TO SEE HOW IT PANS OUT.

>> SPEAKING ABOUT HOUSING COMPANIES, THE HEAD OF JOBSOHIO SENT AN EMAIL, TOUTING CNBC'S NAMING OF OHIO AS THE NUMBER FIVE STATE IN THE COUNTRY TO DO BUSINESS.

J-P NAUSEEF WROTE, "MAJOR BRANDS, LIKE ANDURIL, KIMBERLY- CLARK, META, AWS, AMGEN, SHEETZ, WORLDPAY, GE AEROSPACE, AND MORE, ARE CHOOSING OHIO FOR THEIR NEXT BIG MOVE --AND SO CAN YOU -- WORKING WITH JOBSOHIO'S TEAM. "

SO, TERRY CASEY, WHAT NAME IS ON THAT LIST?

>> INTEL.

>> INTEL IS NOT ON THAT LIST.

>> INTEL, I HAVE SET IT ON THIS SHOW, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, IT WILL GET BUILT BECAUSE IT HAS SO MUCH INVESTED, BUT IT MAY NOT HAVE THE INTEL NAME ON IT.

THE GOOD THING ABOUT THIS DRONE PLANT IS MOST OF THAT MONEY IS STAGED, OVER YEARS, DEPENDING ON HOW MANY PEOPLE THEY ACTUALLY HIGHER.

SO, SOME OF IT IS ADVANCED, SOME OF IT IS NOT ADVANCED, BUT A LARGE PORTION OF THIS ONE IS STAGED OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS, SO ONLY IF THEY PRODUCE THE JOBS, WOULD THEY GET THE MONEY.

>> HOW COULD YOU PUT SHEETZ ON THAT LIST?

IT IS A GAS STATION.

AND NOT PUT INTEL.

IT SHOWS YOU -- >> THAT WOULD SHOW YOU THAT IT IS MORE OF A FOOD PLACE.

>> OKAY, WHATEVER.

>> --THAT HAPPENS TO HAVE GAS PRODUCTS.

SO, FOR FANS OF SHEETZ, FANS OF SOME OF THESE OTHER ONES, WILL TELL YOU THAT IS A BIG PLUS, IN OHIO.

>> WE HAVE TO GET TO A MUCH MORE FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION, WHEN DO REPUBLICANS START PAYING A PRICE FOR THESE SHOW PROJECTS THAT NEVER REALLY MATERIALIZE, OR PRODUCE THE EMPLOYMENT, OR THE CAPITAL THAT THEY SAY THEY ARE GOING TO DO?

THAT TRICKLE DOWN DOES NOT WORK!

>> LET ME GIVE YOU ONE WORD, "HONDA. "

THEY HAD THE VISION IN THE '70s TO GO AFTER HONDA, GOT A MOTORCYCLE PLANT, AND -- >> HOW MUCH DID THEY PAY TO GET HONDA, HERE?

I WASN'T AROUND.

>> NOT THAT MUCH, BECAUSE THAT WASN'T THE GAME, THEN.

THE GAME HAS CHANGED, NOT JUST IN OHIO, BUT ACROSS THE NATION.

>> THAT IS JUST ONE, THOUGH.

GIVE ME ANOTHER NAME THAT HAS MADE BALANCE, AFTER THE BIG SHOW, AND THE LIGHTS WENT OFF.

GIVE ME ANOTHER ONE.

>> WELL, WE DON'T HAVE AS MUCH OF THE OLD DAYS AS AN AUTO PLANT THAT WOULD HIRE 5000, 6000 PEOPLE.

YOU HAVE TO DO IT INCREMENTALLY.

THE GOOD NEWS ON THIS, IF IT IS DATA CENTERS, WHICH HAVE PLUSES AND MINUSES, THIS TIME IT IS ABOUT TECHNOLOGY, AND TECHNOLOGY AS PART OF THE FUTURE.

WHETHER IT IS DRONES, DATA CENTERS, ET CETERA.

IF YOU DON'T ATTRACT THAT AND ATTRACT PEOPLE TO WORK THERE, YOU WILL NOT HAVE A FUTURE.

>> AND DO WE KNOW, THE PROBLEM WITH INTEL IF IT GOES BANKRUPT, THE STATE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO COVER THOSE.

DO WE KNOW WHAT THE CLAWBACK PROVISIONS ARE ON THESE?

THOSE MAY BE PRETTY SECRET UNTIL WE GET DOWN THE ROAD.

>> YEAH, I HAVEN'T DONE A LOT OF REPORTING ON IT UP MYSELF, AND I KNOW SOME OF THEM ARE JUST STARTING TO GET THE APPROVAL, BUT THE ONE YOU JUST REFERENCED WITH JOBSOHIO.

SO, I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THAT.

I KNOW THE STATE DOES TRY TO IMPLEMENT THOSE THINGS INTO THEIR INCENTIVES, BUT YEAH, I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THAT RIGHT NOW.

>> MIKE, THERE ARE LOTS OF COLLATERAL PROJECTS THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THESE BOONDOGGLES.

WE HAVE ALL OF THESE APARTMENTS IN THE CITY OF COLUMBUS WITH NO PARKING REQUIREMENTS.

IF THESE PROJECTS DO NOT MATERIALIZE, AND THE VACANCY RATE GOES UP, WHAT HAPPENS TO ALL OF THESE APARTMENTS?

>> WELL, THAT'S ZONING, THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT THING.

BUT, THE BOTTOM LINE IS, DOES INTEL NEED THIS MONEY?

I MEAN, RICKENBACKER IS A NICE SPOT, YOU CAN TEST THOSE AIRCRAFT BACK THERE --IT IS COMPETITION.

I MEAN, THERE IS ONLY SO MANY OF THESE BIG PROJECTS THAT HAPPEN, AND IF YOU DON'T RECRUIT --BECAUSE IT IS NOT JUST THAT PLANT, IT IS ALL OF THE SUPPLIERS AND FEARS TO IT THAT CREATE MORE JOBS IN THE EQUATION.

>> I REMEMBER ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO, IT HAD BECOME CLEAR THAT JOBSOHIO HAD AMASSED A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY, THEY GET FUNDED FROM TAXES ON LIQUOR SALES WHICH ARE DOING WELL.

ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO, THE PANDEMIC WAS GOING ON.

SO, WE ARE KIND OF SEEING WHERE THAT MONEY IS GOING AND I THINK ALSO, TO SOME EXTENT, THEY HAVE THE MONEY, THEY ARE GOING TO SPEND IT, AND THAT IS WHAT WE WILL SEE WITH THESE BIG PROJECTS.

>>> CONGRESSWOMAN JOYCE BEATTY HAS ONE OF THE SAFEST DISTRICTS IN THE STATE, IF NOT THE COUNTRY.

SHE'S SERVED FOR 12 YEARS.

HER ONLY EVEN MODEST CHALLENGE CAME IN 2020, BUT COVID HAMPERED THE CAMPAIGN OF MORGAN HARPER.

NOW, SHE FACES CRITICISM FOR MISSING SOME KEY VOTES -- INCLUDING ONE THAT COULD HAVE STOPPED PRESIDENT TRUMP'S PROPOSED CUTS TO FOREIGN AID AND PUBLIC BROADCASTING.

BEATTY SAYS SHE MISSED THE VOTE BECAUSE OF HIP REPLACEMENT SURGERY.

SHE UNDERWENT EYE SURGERY ABOUT A WEEK LATER, BUT DID GET BACK TO WASHINGTON TO VOTE AGAINST TRUMP'S TAX CUT AND SPENDING CUT BILL.

THAT DREW THE PRAISE OF HOUSE MINORITY LEADER HAKEEM JEFFRIES.

>> GOOD MORNING, I'M HERE WITH MY GOOD FRIEND AND BIG SISTER, CONGRESSWOMAN JOYCE BEATTY.

I JUST WANT TO THANK THE CONGRESSWOMAN FOR HER PERSISTENCE AND RESILIENCE IN GETTING HERE TO WASHINGTON, LITERALLY ROLLING OUT OF A HOSPITAL BED AFTER COMPLETING SURGERY, TRAVELING HALFWAY ACROSS THE COUNTRY --AGAINST MEDICAL ADVICE --BECAUSE JOYCE BEATTY UNDERSTANDS, AND HOUSE DEMOCRATS UNDERSTAND, THAT WE NEED TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO STOP THIS ONE BIG, UGLY BILL.

>> THE VIDEO BROUGHT SOME PRAISE, AND SOME CALLS FOR THE 75-YEAR-OLD BEATTY TO RETIRE.

BUT, THIS WEEK, SHE TOLD WOSU SHE PLANS TO RUN FOR RE- ELECTION.

SO, GRESHAM, THERE'S TWO WAYS OF LOOKING AT THAT VIDEO.

ONE, A CONGRESSWOMAN THAT JUST GOT OUT OF THE HOSPITAL, WENT TO WASHINGTON TO DO HER JOB.

THE OTHER IS, SHE IS IN A WHEELCHAIR, HOLDING A CANE, LOOKING FRAIL.

HOW DO YOU SEE IT?

>> I DON'T SEE IT AS A THREAT.

I DON'T SEE ANYONE WHO IS A THREAT.

AND BEING IN HER SAME AGE CATEGORY, PERSONALLY, MYSELF, SELF-DISCLOSURE, I KNOW IT IS TOUGHER TO DO WHAT WE USED TO DO AT 35, BUT THERE IS STILL ENOUGH GAS IN THE TANK TO KEEP HER GOING.

SHE HAS A DISTRICT THAT HAS BEEN CARVED OUT TO MAKE IT SAFE FOR HER.

I DON'T CARE HOW MANY PEOPLE DECIDE TO TAKE HER ON.

SHE IS GOING TO WIN THAT DISTRICT UNTIL SHE RETIRES, UNTIL SHE DECIDES TO GO.

AND THERE WILL BE A BIG CEREMONY.

THERE WILL BE EVERYBODY FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY WILL BE COMING IN, TO RECOGNIZE THAT.

AND THERE WILL BE A DEAL ON WHO GETS HER SPOT, AND THERE ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE TRYING TO CUT A DEAL TO DO THAT.

>> THAT IS MY QUESTION, TERRY, BECAUSE THERE WILL BE A FREE- FOR-ALL, MORE OR LESS, WHEN SHE DOES RETIRE, WOULD AN UP AND COMER DECIDE TO GO FOR IT THIS YEAR, BECAUSE THERE IS A CHANCE, A WAVE OUT THERE OF, "LET'S GET SOME NEW BLOOD INTO THE PARTY. "

"LET'S GET THESE NEW DEMOCRATS IN. "

IT STILL HELPS TO BE AN INCUMBENT, BUT IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE IT THREE YEARS, WHY NOT TRY NOW?

>> SHE WILL RUN NEXT YEAR AND SHE WILL WIN BIG.

AND BY THE WAY, LOOKING TO NEXT YEAR, AUGUST, NEXT MONTH, IS WHEN THE STATE HOUSE WILL LOOK AT STARTING FINDING --FINE- TUNING THE CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS.

JOYCE HAS A SAFE DISTRICT.

BUT, WHAT HAPPENS IN THE FUTURE, WE DON'T KNOW.

BUT, THE AGING QUESTION WITH PELOSI AND SCHUMER ARE STILL THERE, IN THEIR 80s, THE TOPS OF THE NATIONAL DEMOCRATS.

THERE ARE PEOPLE ITCHING FOR CHANGE.

>> THE OTHER CONGRESSWOMAN, 79 YEARS OLD, JOYCE BEATTY IS 75.

THERE IS THIS MOVEMENT IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY TO BRING IN NEW FOLKS.

IS THAT GOING TO BE HARD FOR THEM?

MARCY CAPPER IS IN A TOUGHER DISTRICT THAN JOYCE BEATTY, THOUGH.

>> YES, I THINK DEMOCRATS WILL HOPE THAT MARCY CAPPER WILL KEEP RUNNING FOR OFFICE UNTIL SHE IS 100 YEARS OLD, BECAUSE I HAVE HEARD MORE THAN ONE DEMOCRAT, ALMOST CONVENTIONAL WISDOM, THAT ONCE SHE RETIRES, THAT DISTRICT IS LOST FOR THEM.

SO, I AM SURE PEOPLE LIKE FRESH FACES IN POLITICS, BUT IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, FROM A PARTY STAND POINT, YOU WANT YOUR PEOPLE TO WIN.

>> ALL RIGHT, LET'S GET TO OUR FINAL OFF THE RECORD, PARTING SHOTS.

TERRY, YOU ARE FIRST.

>> I WANT TO SAY, GREG, ON HIS 78th BIRTHDAY.

HE IS YOUNG.

78 YEARS OLD.

>> TERRY?

>> I WAS GOING TO MENTION THE CNBC RANKING OF OHIOANS THE TOP FIVE, YOU STILL THAT AWAY FROM ME, SO MY OTHER THING IS, IF I AM A TAXPAYER IN THE CITY OF COLUMBUS, IF I DIDN'T HAVE ALL OF THE TAX ABATEMENT, BY MY ROUGH ESTIMATE, OUR PROPERTY TAX WOULD BE 11% OR 12% LOWER BECAUSE OF THE TAX ABATEMENT THAT HAVE ADDED UP OVER THE YEARS.

>> ANDRI?

>> I WAS AT THE COLUMBUS CLIPPERS GAME YESTERDAY AND THERE WAS SOME SPECULATION WHETHER CHASE WOULD BE CALLED UP TO THE GUARDIANS, OR NOT.

SO, I WAS LOOKING IN THE DUGOUT TO SEE IF WE COULD TAKE A PICTURE AND TWEET IT AND DO SOME REAL REPORTING WHEN I WAS ON MY DAY OFF, BUT I COULDN'T RECOGNIZE HIM, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> FAILED SPORTS REPORTER.

I'M SORRY.

WELL, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR JIM TRESSEL IS TALKING ABOUT HELPING KIDS GET HEALTHIER, SO IS VIVEK RAMASWAMY.

AND THERE IS ALSO A BUILD IN LEGISLATURE TO BRING BACK THE PRESIDENTIAL FITNESS TEST, SO MAYBE WE WILL ALL FIND OUT IF WE CAN DO PULL-UPS AGAIN.

>> CLIMBING THAT ROPE.

>> ROPER AND COMING DOWN.

I USED TO HATE THAT.

ANYWAY, THAT'S "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK.

AND, YOU CAN WATCH US ANYTIME ON OUR WEBSITE, WOSU.

ORG/COTR, ALSO ON YOUTUBE AND THE PBS VIDEO APP.

I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.