>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY .

HERE IS WHAT'S COMING UP.

>>> I TERMINATED THE RIDICULOUS AND INCREDIBLY WASTEFUL GREEN NEW DEAL .

I CALL IT THE GREEN NEW SCAM.

>> PRESIDENT TRUMP IS MAKING GOOD ON PROMISES TO ROLLBACK CLIMATE PROGRESS COME UP BUT WILL FUTURE GENERATIONS PAY THE PRICE OF?

I DISCUSSED WITH CONSERVATIVE ENVIRONMENTALIST BENJI BAKKER AND THE NEW YORK TIMES' LISA FREEMAN.

>>> I'M CRYING OUT OF HAPPINESS, THIS MAN SAYS.

I DON'T WANT ANYTHING EXCEPT ENTER MY HOMELAND.

>> A SPECIAL REPORT ON THE PALESTINIANS RETURNING HOME .

>>> AND AS ISRAEL'S CEASE-FIRE HOLD WITH HAMAS, IS IT STEEL WITH HEZBOLLAH IN LEBANON -- WE GET THE LATEST DETAIL WITH BEIRUT BUREAU CHIEF FOR THE LOS ANGELES TIMES.

>> WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO -- BUT TO ASK OURSELVES WHO ARE WE AT THIS PRESENT MOMENT?

>>> IN A WORLD HAUNTED BY CONFLICT, PHYSICIAN, AUTHOR, AND HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR DR. GABOR MATE TELLS MICHELLE MARTIN HOW WE CAN HEAL IT.

>> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM .

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS .

-- SETON J. MELVIN, THE THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND , CHARLES ROSENBLUM, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN , COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

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AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

DRILL BABY DRILL.

NOT JUST A SLOGAN, DONALD TRUMP RAN ON BUT A CLEAR POLICY GOAL IS FIRST WEEK IN OFFICE.

WITH A FLURRY OF EXECUTIVE ORDERS, HIS AND EXECUTIVE -- OUT OF THE PARIS CLIMATE ACCORDS ONCE AGAIN.

UNDOING BIDEN AARON GREEN INVESTMENT AND UNDERMINE AND RENTAL JUSTICE.

PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS ALSO DECLARED A NATIONAL ENERGY EMERGENCY, DESPITE THE U.S. PARTY PRODUCING MORE OIL THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN HISTORY.

LET'S BE CLEAR ABOUT THE CONTEXT OF THIS ACTION.

THE PASTOR WAS THE HOTTEST ON RECORD AND THE NATIONAL OCEANIC AND THE SPHERIC MINISTRIES AND SO THERE WAS 27 DISASTERS ACROSS THE U.S. AT LEAST $1 BILLION EACH.

ALL LIKELY EXACERBATED BY OUR CHANGING CLIMATE.

OF COURSE, THAT'S NOT INCLUDING THE CATASTROPHIC FIRES IN CALIFORNIA.

SO WHAT DOES THIS ALL MEAN FOR THE CLIMATE AND THE ENVIRONMENT, JOIN ME NOW TO DISCUSS IS BENJI BAKKER, WHO BELIEVES ALSO, LISA FREEMAN WHO REPORTS ON POLICY AND POLITICS FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES.

WELCOME BOTH OF YOU.

SO WE ARE IN ONE WEEK OF DONALD TRUMP THE MINISTRATION.

WE SEEN A SLEW OF THOSE EASILY TO CLIMATE AND ENERGY SPECIFICALLY, AND LISA, WE HAVE BEEN ANTICIPATING THIS, TO BE FAIR, DONALD TRUMP RAN ON A LOT OF THESE POLICY INITIATIVES.

WHAT, IF ANYTHING, HAS A PRICE YOU IN TERMS OF WHAT WE'VE ACTUALLY SEEN HIM IMPLEMENT AND ANNOUNCE THIS WEEK?

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

YOU KNOW, WE WERE PROMISED SHOCK AND AWE AND INDEED, IT IS.

A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE SEEING, AS YOU SAID, THESE WERE FORECAST DURING THE CAMPAIGN.

IT'S NOT A SURPRISE THAT HE PULLED THE UNITED STATES OR STARTED THE PROCESS OF PULLING THE UNITED STATES OUT OF THE PARIS AGREEMENT.

YOU KNOW, IT IS NOT A SURPRISE THAT HE IS STARTING QUICKLY TO WATER HIS AGENCIES TO REWIND VIRTUALLY EVERY REGULATION THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION SET TO ADDRESS CLIMATE CHANGE.

THE SWIFTNESS, I THINK OF THINGS THAT WE SAW LIKE THE ENERGY EMERGENCY ORDER, WHICH WE CAN TALK ABOUT MORE AND THE LACK OF CLARITY STILL ABOUT HOW THAT'S GOING TO BE USED, AND THE REAL ANTAGONISM TOWARD RENEWABLE ENERGY THAT WE ARE SEEING.

WHAT IS SURPRISING IS THAT WE ARE ENTERING INTO AN ADMINISTRATION THAT ON THE ONE HAND IS TELLING AMERICA THAT WE ARE IN AN ENERGY EMERGENCY AND IN THE SAME BREATH SAYING WE ARE GOING TO STOP AND MAKE IT DIFFICULT FROM HERE ON OUT TO PUT WIND, SOLAR, AND ENERGY SOURCES THAT IT MIGHT FIND PROBLEMATIC ONTO THE GRID.

>> AND WE MIGHT BE SEEING SOME PUSHBACK FROM UNLIKELY SOURCES AND INDUSTRIES.

NOW, AS WELL, RELATIVE TO WHERE THINGS STOOD DURING HIS LAST ADMINISTRATION.

BENJI, LET'S GO TO THIS IDEA OF CONSERVATIVE ENVIRONMENTALISM BECAUSE THAT'S HOW YOU DESCRIBE YOURSELF IN THE INTRODUCTION.

I NOTED THAT YOU DON'T THINK AN ISSUE LIKE THE ENVIRONMENT SHOULD BE VIEWED THROUGH A POLITICAL LENS.

YOUR REACTION TO JUST WHAT WE HAVE HEARD ON THE PRESIDENT THIS WEEK AND ISSUING THESE EXECUTIVE ORDERS?

>> LOOK, I'M SICK OF THE ENVIRONMENT BEING CAUGHT UP IN POLITICAL CULTURE WARS JUST AS MUCH IS ANYBODY.

THAT'S WHY IDENTIFY AS A CONSERVATIVE ENVIRONMENTALIST ACROSS AMERICA PEOPLE, NO MATTER IF THEY'RE CONSERVATIVE OR LIBERAL WANT TO PROTECT THE ENVIRONMENT AND AMERICA IS AT ITS BEST, OUR ENVIRONMENT IS AT ITS BEST WHEN BOTH SIDES ARE FIGHTING FOR IT IN TANDEM.

UNFORTUNATELY, OVER THE LAST REALLY 10 OR 20 YEARS, MOST OF MY LIFE, THE ENVIRONMENT HAS SHIFTED FROM SOMETHING THAT WE ALL AGREED ON TO SOMETHING THAT IS NOW SOMETHING THAT IS PARTISAN, POLARIZING ISSUE.

THE PROBLEM IS AS YOU GET THIS POLITICAL BACK AND FORTH JOE BIDEN SINCE LISA STORE CLIMATE TARGETS THAT I THINK OVER FIXATES ON JUST RENEWABLES, DOESN'T TALK ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE -- UNTIL THE END DETERMINE DONALD TRUMP GOES AND DOES THE OPPOSITE OF IT.

WE NEED TO CREATE AN ENVIRONMENTAL MOVEMENT THAT ACTUALLY LASTS THROUGH PRESIDENCIES AND RIGHT NOW, THAT'S NOT HAPPENING.

I DO THINK THAT THERE YOU KNOW, 1400+ DAYS LEFT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE FIND A SENSIBLE APPROACH BUT I DO AGREE THAT WE NEED AND ALL OF THE ABOVE ENERGY STRATEGY.

WE NEED TO PRODUCE MORE ENERGY BUT WE ALSO NEED TO PROTECT THE ENVIRONMENT.

RIGHT NOW, PRESIDENT TRUMP IS OVER FIXATING ON THE ENERGY SIDE OF THINGS.

I THINK PRESIDENT BIDEN MIGHT HAVE ABILITIES AND WE NEED TO FIND A BOUNCER BOTH AND IS GOING TO TAKE BOTH PARTIES TO DO THAT.

>> LISA, LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT ONE OF THESE ORDERS AND THAT'S WHAT YOU NOTED ON TO HOW WE COULD SEE IT IMPLEMENTED AND THAT THE EMERGENCY, THE ENERGY EMERGENCY THAT HE HAS DECLARED, SAYING THAT THERE IS INADEQUATE ENERGY SUPPLY.

FIRST OF ALL, WE KNOW THAT'S NOT TRUE.

BUT IN DECLARING THAT, WHAT POWERS IS HE GRANTED?

>> SURE.

YOU KNOW, I WILL SAY, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE PRESIDENT IDENTIFIED IS THAT THE COUNTRY IS GOING TO NEED MORE ENERGY.

BETWEEN DATA CENTERS, A.I., THERE IS A NEED FOR MORE ENERGY.

IS IN A CRISIS THAT'S NOT WHAT ENERGY EXPERTS ARE TELLING US NOW.

SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE MIGHT SEE BEING USED IS INCLUDING A FEDERAL POWERS ACT, THERE COULD BE EFFORTS TO KEEP, FOR EXAMPLE, COAL PLANTS ONLINE LONGER AND THAT WOULD BE COMBINED WITH EFFORTS BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TO REPEAL REGULATIONS THAT WOULD HAVE FORCED THEM TO BE CLEANER, TO INSTALL TECHNOLOGY THAT CAPTURES EMISSIONS.

WE COULD ALSO SEE A LOOSENING OF PERMITS TO SPEED THE CONSTRUCTION OF PIPELINES OR TERMINALS.

ALL OF THOSE COME WITH LEGAL IMPLICATIONS, POTENTIAL LAWSUITS , NONE OF THIS EVEN WITH AN EXECUTIVE ORDER CAN BE DONE WITH THE FLICK OF A PEN.

>> ISSUING MORE PERMITS, PULLING BACK ON REGULATION, THAT IS NOTHING I WOULD IMAGINE THE OIL INDUSTRY WOULD EMBRACE BUT I DO WONDER, GIVEN WHERE PRICES ARE RIGHT NOW, WHERE PRODUCTION LEVELS ARE SET, WHETHER OIL COMPANIES ARE IN THE FRAME OF MIND NOW TO ACTUALLY START DRILLING MORE THE WAY THAT THE PRESIDENT IS SUGGESTING THAT THE COUNTRY NEEDS TO.

IS IT IN THEIR BUSINESS INCENTIVE MODEL TO DO IT NOW?

>> IN MANY WAYS, NO.

IT COULD AFFECT PRICES FOR THEM AND PROFIT MARGINS.

-- WATERS AVAILABLE FOR THE FUTURE.

THE INDUSTRY IS NEVER INTERESTED IN GIVING UP ANY AREAS WHERE THEY COULD DRILL IN THE FUTURE AND YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT IF YOU LISTEN TO HOW THE INDUSTRY IS TALKING ABOUT THE EXECUTIVE ORDERS, THERE'S SOME CONCERN BUT NOT TOO MUCH THAT IT WILL BE PROBLEMATIC FOR THE INDUSTRY.

I THINK THEY SEE A GOLDEN LIGHT AT THE END OF THIS TUNNEL.

>> BENJI, LET'S TALK ABOUT PULLING OUT OF THE PARIS CLIMATE ACCORD.

SHOULD NOT BE A SURPRISE.

SOMETHING HE PROMISED TO DO DURING HIS CAMPAIGN IF HE WERE RE-ELECTED.

HE IS DONE JUST THAT AND IT SET TO TAKE EFFECT A YEAR FROM NOW.

GIVE US YOUR TAKE ON WHY HE HAS SUCH AN AVERSION TO THE PARIS CLIMATE ACCORDS TO BEGIN WITH?

>> FIRST OF ALL, LET ME JUST SAY THAT ON THE PERMITTING FRONT, JUST TO GO BACK TO THE LAST QUESTION, OVER 90% OF THE GOVERNMENT PERMITS THAT ARE IN WAITING FOR ENERGY PROJECTS ARE ASKED TO CLEAN ENERGY RELATED.

IF WE SPED UP PERMITTING, THAT WOULD ACTUALLY HELP CLEAN ENERGY.

JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT KNOWN BUT ALSO I THINK PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS A VALID REASON TO BE SKEPTICAL OF THE PARIS CLIMATE ACCORDS.

IF I WAS PRESIDENT, I WOULD STAY IN AND TRY TO ENGAGE AT THE INTERNATIONAL LEVEL TO BECOME CLEAR THAT BUT ALSO I CAN SEE WHY HE SKEPTICAL.

CHINA IS INCREASING ITS OMISSIONS AND ASTRONOMIC RATE IN THE NIGHT DATES IS DECREASING ITS EMISSIONS.

IN FACT, THE UNITED STATES DECREASED ITS EMISSIONS MORE THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY WHEN WE PULLED OUT OF THE PARIS ACCORDS THE FIRST TIME PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS PRESIDENT.

THE IT'S NOT NECESSARY TO BE A PART OF IT TO MAKE POSITIVE PROGRESS AND ALSO, IT DOESN'T REALLY HOLD CHINA AND THESE OTHER COUNTRIES ACCOUNTABLE ENOUGH.

ONE THING I WANT TO MAKE ALSO CLEAR IS THAT EVEN THOUGH HE HAS A VALID CONCERN FOR THAT AND EVEN THOUGH I PROBABLY WOULD RATHER STAY IN IT AND BE ACTIVE IN THE INTERNATIONAL DIALOGUE AND I WAS ACTUALLY HUNGRY IN ITALY, -- HUNGARY AND ITALY, THEY ALSO WANT UNITED STATES TO STAY IN THE PARIS ACCORDS BUT UNDERSTANDING ALL OF THAT, THE REASON WHY HE'S SO HESITANT ON THE ENVIRONMENT IS BECAUSE OF THE POLITICAL FOOTBALL ISSUE.

THE BASE EXPECTED TO A POLITICAL FOOTBALL AND WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO CONVINCE THE MINISTRATION THERE'S THE MIDDLE WAY, THERE'S A THIRD WAY.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE EXTREMIST AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO DENY THAT THERE ARE PROBLEMS.

THE AMERICAN ENVIRONMENT IS THE MOST FULL ENVIRONMENT IN THE WORLD FROM A COUNTRY PERSPECTIVE OF MY BIASED OPINION AND I BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE TO DO THE TO PROTECT IT.

IF HE WANTS TO LIVE UP TO TEDDY ROOSEVELT'S LEGACY, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT HE SAYS HE CARES ABOUT, HE NEEDS TO BECOME THE 21st CENTURY CONSERVATION PRESIDENT AND INVEST IN NATURE AND OUR BEAUTIFUL, BEAUTIFUL NATIONAL PARKS AND OUR BIODIVERSITY AND HABITATS AND OUR ECOSYSTEMS AT THE SAME TIME THAT WE ARE PRODUCING ENERGY.

WE CAN DO THAT IN OR OUT OF THE PARIS ACCORDS.

WE CAN MAKE SOME REALLY POSITIVE PROGRESS AND HE WOULD SET A DIFFERENT PRECEDENT GOING INTO THE FUTURE THAT SOMEONE EVEN AS UNLIKELY AS DONALD TRUMP COULD LEAD A HISTORIC INVESTMENT INTO NATURE AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK CAN HAPPEN REGARDLESS OF WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THESE FIRST FEW DAYS.

>> LISA, WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES AND IMPACT OF THE U.S. LEAVING THE PARIS CLIMATE ACCORDS IN TERMS OF ITS ULTIMATE MANDATE AND THAT IS KEEPING GLOBAL WARMING TO BELOW 1 1/2 DEGREES CELSIUS ABOVE PREINDUSTRIAL LEVELS.

I MEAN IS THAT JUST -- LISTEN.

IT'S DIFFICULT ENOUGH NOW TO ACHIEVE BUT IS IT JUST A PIPE DREAM WITHOUT THE U.S.

BEING PART OF THE PROCESS?

>> THE WORLD IS ALREADY WARMED 1.1, MAYBE ONE .2 DEGREES ABOVE PREINDUSTRIAL LEVELS.

WHETHER WE CAN KEEP TO 1.5, YOU KNOW, EVEN SCIENTISTS ARE SKEPTICAL AND WORRIED RIGHT NOW.

LOOK, THE U.S. IS THE NOW SECOND LARGEST EMITTER ANNUALLY AFTER CHINA.

AS THE LARGEST HISTORIC EMITTER .

WE KNOW AND WE SEE THAT WHEN THE U.S. IS INVOLVED, THE U.S. PUSHES OTHER COUNTRIES TO BE MORE AMBITIOUS.

WITH THE U.S. NOT AT THE TABLE, YOU KNOW, IT MAY BE DECIDED IN BEIJING WHETHER THE PLANET CAN KEEP TWO SAFE LEVELS OF WARMING OR NOT.

WITHOUT THE U.S. AT THE TABLE, PRESSURING AND WORKING WITH CHINA TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN AND TO REDUCE EMISSIONS, PEAK THEM AND START REDUCING THEM QUICKLY IN CHINA, I THINK IT'S A REAL OPEN QUESTION.

MORE BROADLY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THE REST OF THE WORLD HAS SEEN THIS MOVIE.

WE PULLED OUT OF THE PARIS AGREEMENT THE FIRST TIME UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S FIRST ADMINISTRATION.

WE ALSO PULLED OUT OF THE KYOTO PROTOCOL OUT OF BUSH, AN AGREEMENT THAT THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION HAD JOINED.

SO, YOU KNOW, THE WORLD IS NOW I THINK AT A LEVEL WHERE IT ACCEPTS OF THE UNITED STATES IS A FICKLE PARTNER AT BEST WHEN IT COMES TO ADDRESSING A GLOBAL ISSUE LIKE CLIMATE CHANGE.

DOES IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

YES.

>> AND IT SORT OF DISPROVES WHAT PRESIDENT BIDEN HAD BEEN HOPING TO SEND IN TERMS OF A MESSAGE THE WORLD.

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WAS AN ANOMALY FOR YEARS THAT HAD COME AND GONE AND HE WOULD BE MUCH MORE OF A UNIFIER AND KEEPING STABILITY AND THE U.S. TO BE PART OF ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THIS AND THAT'S PROVEN NOT TO BE TRUE.

IN TERMS OF THE U.S. COMPETITION WITH CHINA IN GENERAL, A BIG FOCUS IS THE BUSINESS MODEL OF ELECTRIC VEHICLES AND THE EV MODEL HAS BEEN FLOURISHING BOTH IN CHINA AND THE UNITED STATES FOR YEARS NOW.

PRESIDENT BIDEN HAD PROMISED TO REALLY PUT MORE MONEY IN EV'S, MORE CLUBBERS SOLD BY 2030 OF THESE CARS SOLD BY 2030.

PRESIDENT TRUMP REVOKING THESE INCENTIVES.

WHAT YOU THINK PRESIDENT TRUMP IS SO AGAINST ELECTRIC VEHICLES AND HASN'T THAT ALREADY LEFT THE BARN IN THE SENSE THAT THIS IS WHERE SO MUCH FOCUS AND INVESTMENT FROM THE AUTO INDUSTRY HAS ALREADY GONE?

>> LOOK.

ON THE PARIS CLIMATE ACCORD, JUST GO BACK TO THAT FOR A SECOND, AS WELL.

YOU KNOW, WE ARE KIND OF DOING YOUR PART WHEN IT COMES TO REDUCING EMISSIONS.

OF COURSE, SHORTLY, WE ARE THE LARGEST EMITTER BUT WE ARE REDUCING MISSIONS MORE THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY.

WE NEED TO DO MORE?

YES BUT TO SAY WE ARE NOT DOING OUR PART BECAUSE WE LIKE LEAVE AN AGREEMENT IS A LITTLE BIT OF A FALLACY.

WE NEED TO BE AT THE INTERNATIONAL DIALOGUE WITH THE RESULTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.

OUR COUNTRY IS REDUCING EMISSIONS OR THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY.

WE NEED TO CONTINUE THAT PROGRESS FOR SURE BUT I DON'T THINK THAT WE CAN SAY THAT WE ARE JUST, THE WORST PLAYER IN THE WORLD STAGE AND WE ARE THE ONES DOING THE MOST AS OF RIGHT NOW.

THAT'S ALL WE CAN CONTROL.

WE CAN'T CONTROL THE PAST, WE CAN ONLY CONTROL WHAT WE DO RIGHT NOW.

IN TERMS OF ELECTRIC VEHICLES, I THINK AMERICA WANTS A MORE DIVERSE TRANSPORTATION MIX.

WE DON'T JUST WANT ELECTRIC VEHICLES.

PEOPLE ON HYBRIDS AND MORE FUEL EFFICIENT INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE VEHICLES AND MAYBE SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T EVEN EXIST YET IT HASN'T BEEN INVENTED.

I HOPE THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP UNDERSTANDS THE IMPORTANCE OF DOING ELECTRIC VEHICLES HERE IN AMERICA, MINING HERE IN AMERICA, PRODUCING THE VEHICLES HERE IN AMERICA BUT I DO SHARE SOME OF THE SKEPTICISM.

I DRIVE AN ELECTRIC VEHICLE.

I UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF ELECTRIC VEHICLES AND I LIKE ELECTRIC VEHICLES BUT THERE ARE SOME REAL DOWN SIGNS, ECONOMICALLY AND ENVIRONMENTALLY, THAT HAVEN'T BEEN ADDRESSED YET.

IT CREATES A LARGE PROBLEM FOR AMERICA WHEN WE ARE SO RELIANT ON CHINA FOR ALL THE INGREDIENTS THAT MAKE UP AN ELECTRIC VEHICLE AND THE ENERGY THAT THEY USED TO CREATE IT IS COAL AND NATURAL GAS.

IT'S A COMPLICATED SUBJECT BUT I THINK, AGAIN, THIS IS JUST SHOWING THE POLITICAL FOOTBALL.

THERE'S A MIDDLE GROUND HERE.

A MIDDLE GROUND THAT HAS HYBRIDS, ELECTRIC VEHICLES, AND OTHER TYPES OF VEHICLES, BUT ALSO DOESN'T ALIENATE THE FUTURE OF THE TRANSPORTATION INDUSTRY, WHICH LARGELY IS GOING TOWARDS ELECTRIC BUT IS ONLY GOING TO BE ELECTRIC.

PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS UNDERSTAND THAT.

>> BUT LISA, DO YOU THINK HE DOES UNDERSTAND THAT BECAUSE THAT SEEMS TO BE ONLY CAUSING MORE AND MORE CONFUSION, BOTH FOR CONSUMERS AND FOR BUSINESSES.

>> YEAH, I MEAN I THINK THIS HAS EXPOSE A LOT OF TENSIONS ON BOTH SIDES.

LOOK, IN TERMS OF FINDING A MIDDLE GROUND, I THINK YOU HAVE SEEN THE CLIMATE MOVEMENT FOR YEARS TRYING TO FIND A WAY THAT IS GOING TO BE OKAY -- NATIONAL SECURITY WAS A DUD.

THAT SEEMS TO NOT BE WORKING, YOU KNOW, FINDING A MIDDLE GROUND IS HIM AS BENJI SAID, ADMITTEDLY CARD.

-- HARD.

WHEN IT COMES TO ELECTRIC VEHICLES, YOU HAVE A LARGE PART OF THE AUTO INDUSTRY THAT WANTS TO MODIFY BUT NOT GOT THE AUTO MISSION RULES IS, YOU KNOW, THAT SEES THE 50% OF NEW CARS BEING BUT IN CHINA ARE ELECTRIC VEHICLES AND WANT TO BE PART OF THAT MARKET.

IT MAY VERY WELL BE SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE TURNED OFF AND YOU KNOW, IT APPEARS THAT THE ATTITUDE TOWARD ELECTRIC VEHICLES STARTING OUT OF THE GATE FROM THIS ADMINISTRATION IS MORE VISCERAL THAN BUILT ON A THOUGHTFUL ENERGY POLICY.

>> SURPRISING GIVEN WHERE ELON MUSK PLAYS HIS ROLE IN ALL OF THIS.

OBVIOUSLY THE TESLA AND HE'S BEEN A STAUNCH SUPPORTER OF EV INVESTMENT FOR YEARS AND NOW HE SEEMS TO BE OKAY WITH THESE EOS FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF IT -- AND I WILL GIVE YOU THE LAST WORD.

WHAT YOU MAKE OF WHAT LISA HAS IN THING BECAUSE THERE HAD BEEN A PUSH BY PRESIDENT BIDEN TO MAKE THIS LESS OF AN IDEOLOGICAL SHIFT IN TRANSITION.

-- INVESTED BILLIONS, TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST FOUR YEARS AND THEN MOVED TOWARDS -- SO WHERE IS THAT MIDDLEGROUND BECAUSE IT SEEMS THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN IS TRYING TO ADDRESS JUST THAT.

>> I WOULD ARGUE THAT HE WOULDN'T INTO THAT AT ALL.

HE DIDN'T REACH OUT TO CONSERVATIVE COMMUNITIES -- TRAVELING THE COUNTRY, ALL 50 STATES JUST UNDERSTAND WHERE CLIMATE.

THIS RDA SKEPTICISM WHEN GOVERNOR NEWSOM IN CALIFORNIA SAYS YOU HAVE TO BUY ELECTRIC CARS BY 2030 OTHERWISE, WE ARE NOT GOING TO OFFER ANY ALTERNATIVES.

IF YOU WERE LIVING IN MORE RURAL PART OF CALIFORNIA THAT'S NOT GOING TO SIT WELL WHEN YOU CAN AFFORD THAT OR IT IS OF THE TYPE OF VEHICLE THAT YOU NEED TO DO THE JOB THAT YOU NEED TO DO.

THE TOPIC AROUND CLIMATE HAS BEEN SUPER ELITIST AND OUT OF TOUCH WITH THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS.

THERE'S A REASON WHY ONLY 30 SOME PERCENT IDENTIFY AS ENVIRONMENTALISTS WHEN OVER 80% DID IN 1990.

IT'S BECAUSE THE CONVERSATION IS VERY TOP-DOWN.

IT THING YOU PEOPLE ARE BAD, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM, YOU NEED TO CHANGE HER LIVELIHOOD.

WE ARE GOING TO CHANGE ALL THE ENERGY SOURCES AND WE WILL DO ALL THESE THINGS AND I DON'T THINK PRESIDENT BIDEN REALLY HELP WITH THAT.

HE DIDN'T WORK ACROSS THE AISLE.

AND I THINK PRESIDENT TRUMP IS DOING THAT EITHER.

I JUST THINK THAT NEITHER SIDE HAS BEEN INCENTIVIZED TO DO THAT AND PRESIDENT BIDEN PUT PEOPLE AGAINST EACH OTHER WHEN IT WAS TALKING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE.

DON'T THINK THE CLIMATE COMMUNITY AS VOICES THAT REALLY RESONATE WITH THE OTHER SIDE.

IT'S JUST PEOPLE IN COASTAL AMERICA TALKING DOWN TO RULE AMERICA.

WE GOT TO BRIDGE THAT CHASM.

I THINK IT CAN HAPPEN.

THERE IS A MIDDLE GROUND AND IT TOTALLY DOABLE.

WE HAVE TO CENTER AROUND OUR SHARED LOVE OF THE ENVIRONMENT.

IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME.

>> LET'S CONTINUE THIS CONVERSATION DOWN THE ROAD BECAUSE WE ALL HAVE A STAKE IN THIS ALL SUBJECT MATTERS, IT'S THIS ONE.

BENJI, LISA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

>> FRAGILE FACE FIRES -- >>> FRAGILE CEASE-FIRES ARE HOLDING THE SPIKY LIMITATION.

WILL TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT LEBANON IN JUST A MOMENT.

BUT FIRST, AN ESTIMATE OF 300,000 DISPLACED PALESTINIANS ARE COMING BACK TO NORTHERN GAZA AND REGION REDUCED TO RUBBLE.

THESE IMAGES HERE AFTER ISRAEL REOPENED THE ROAD HOME UNDER THE TERMS OF THE CEASE-FIRE WITH HAMAS.

CORRESPONDENT JEREMY DIAMOND HAS FOR THE REPORTING.

>> Reporter: TODAY, THE MASSES OF PEOPLE TRACKING THE CAUSES COASTAL ROAD ARE NOT BEING FORCED TO FREE -- FLEA.

THEY ARE RETURNING HOME.

>> THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE ARE GOING BACK TO THEIR HOMES, THIS MAN SHOUTS, ANNOUNCING HIS JOY TO ANYONE WHO WILL LISTEN.

IT'S A GREAT HAPPINESS.

WE FEEL LIKE WE CAN FLY.

>> Reporter: AFTER BEING DISPLACED FOR MONTHS ON END, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PALESTINIANS ARE FINALLY RETURNING TO NORTHERN GAZA.

SHIELDED BY THE GUARANTEES OF A SIX WEEK CEASE-FIRE.

THIS A RIVER OF HUMANITY FLOWS FOR MILES AND MILES, UNDERSCORING THE MAGNITUDE OF THE LAST 15 MONTHS OF WAR.

FOR MANY, THEIR JOURNEY BEGAN IN SOUTHERN GAZA.

TAKING DOWN THEIR TENTS, A HOPE FOR EVER.

I'M TAKING THESE FOUR BAGS AND GOING BACK TO MY HOUSE, HE SAYS.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S STILL STANDING OR NOT BUT I'M GOING BACK TO BEIT HANOUN.

BABIES WASTED ALONG WITH URGENCY.

OTHERS CARRY WHAT THEY CAN, TAKING THEIR CHANCES ON FOOT.

TRUDGING THROUGH THIS UNEVEN COASTAL ROAD, YOUNG AND OLD ALIKE ARE DETERMINED TO PUSH PAST FATIGUE AND RETURN HOME.

FOR THE FIRST OF MANY, THAT MOMENT CAME SHORTLY AFTER 9:00 A.M., CROSSING AN ABANDONED ISRAELI CHECKPOINT WHERE MASKED HAMAS MILITANTS STAND.

ISRAEL AGREED TO OPEN THE ROAD TO NORTHERN GAZA ONLY AFTER RESOLVING A TWO-DAY DISPUTE WITH HAMAS OVER THE FATE OF IT IS REALLY HOSTAGE.

HAMAS -- AND A THIRD HOSTAGE ON THURSDAY.

BACK IN GAZA, THIS IS WHAT MOST ARE RETURNING TO.

BOMBED OUT BUILDINGS AND HEAPS OF RUBBLE NOW LINE THE STREETS.

EVEN AMID THE DESTRUCTION, THERE IS JOY AS FAMILY MEMBERS SEPARATED BY WAR REUNITE.

THANK GOD, HE SAYS AS HE KISSES HIS MOTHER AND EMBRACES HIS DAUGHTER.

HE HASN'T SEEN THEM IN 10 MONTHS.

AMID THE REUNIONS, THERE ARE ALSO TEARS AS PEOPLE SET FOOT ON THE LAND THEY CALLED HOME ONCE AGAIN.

I AM CRYING RIGHT NOW AT OF HAPPINESS, THIS MAN SAYS.

I DON'T WANT ANYTHING EXCEPT TO ENTER MY HOMELAND.

THE ENORMITY OF THE DESTRUCTION IN GAZA PROMPTING PRESIDENT TRUMP TO CALL FOR MOVING PALESTINIANS OUT OF GAZA.

>> I WOULD LIKE EGYPT TO TAKE PEOPLE AND I LIKE JORDAN TO TAKE PEOPLE.

YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT -- PEOPLE AND WE JUST CLEAN OUT THAT WHOLE THING.

>> Reporter: AMONG THOSE WHO CAMPED OUT FOR DAYS NEAR THE CHECKPOINT TO NORTHERN GAZA , WAITING FOR IT TO OPEN, TRUMPS IDEAS QUICKLY REJECTED.

WE SAY NO AND 1,000,001 NOES.

WE WILL STAY HERE, WE WILL STAY IN GAZA, EVEN IF IT IS A PILE OF RUBBLE.

>> THAT WAS JEREMY DIAMOND REPORTING FOR US.

>>> TURNING TO THE CEASE-FIRE WITH LEBANON, THAT AGREEMENT HAS BEEN EXTENDED UNTIL DEGREE 18.

ISRAELI TROOPS WERE SLATED TO WITHDRAW FROM SOUTHERN LEBANON BY SUNDAY.

THE IDF NOW SAYS THAT WITHDRAWAL IS REGRESSING GRADUALLY, CLAIMING HEZBOLLAH HAS BROKEN ITS OWN PROMISE TO LEAVE THE AREA.

ON SUNDAY, IDF FORCES KILLED MORE THAN 20 PEOPLE AS THEY TRY TO RETURN TO VILLAGES STILL OCCUPIED BY ISRAEL.

FOR MORE IN THIS, LET'S BRING IN MIDDLE EAST BUREAU CHIEF FOR THE L.A. TIMES, NABIH BULOS.

IT'S BEEN A GOOD LONG WHILE, IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN, NABIH.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THOSE IMAGES, 300,000 CIVILIANS RETURNING FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE THE WAR BEGAN.

THIS CEASE-FIRE, AS FRAGILE AS IT IS, IT'S CONTINUING TO HOLD.

ISRAEL HAD ACCUSED HAMAS OF RENEGING ON THE PROMISES MADE IN TERMS OF THIS DEAL, REGARDING THE HOSTAGES TO BE RELEASED BUT PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU SECURED HIMSELF SOMEWHAT OF A WIN THIS WEEK BECAUSE THERE WILL BE TWO SEPARATE RELEASES, ONE ON THURSDAY NOW AND FRIDAY.

BUT GIVEN ALL OF THAT, I WANTED YOU TO RESPOND TO A COLUMN IN A SPECIFIC QUOTE FROM ISRAELI JOURNALIST -- IN TERMS OF WHERE THINGS GO -- IN TERMS OF PHASE TWO.

HERE IS WHAT AMOS HAREL SAID.

NAMELY THE RETURN OF GAZANS TO THE NORTHERN STRIP.

WHAT THEY ARE BACK IN THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES, WILL BE DIFFICULT FOR ISRAEL TO RESUME THE WAR IN EVACUATE THEM AGAIN FROM AREAS OF THE ARMY WANTS TO OCCUPY.

EVEN IF THE CEASE-FIRE AGREEMENT COLLAPSES AT THE END OF THE SIX WEEKS IT'S FIRST AID.

DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS ASSESSMENT THAT DESPITE INTERNAL PRESSURE, THAT PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU MAY BE FACING FROM SOME FRINGES IN HIS COALITION AND DESPITE STATEMENTS THAT HE'S MADE THAT THE U.S. -- THAT REALISTICALLY, IT WOULD BE VERY, VERY DIFFICULT FOR HIM BOTH DOMESTICALLY AND PHYSICALLY AND GIVING INTERNATIONAL PRESSURE, NAMELY FROM DONALD TRUMP TO ACTUALLY PULL OUT OF THE CEASE-FIRE AT SOME POINT NOW THAT WE ARE HAVING RESIDENTS RETURN HOME TO THE NORTH?

>> WELL THE FACT THAT HE'S BEEN BACK FOR SOME TIME ON THE LENIENCY OR PERHAPS SUPPORT OF DONALD TRUMP WHEN IT COMES TO ISRAELI POLICIES WITH THE PALESTINIANS AND SO I MEAN PERHAPS ONE PART OF HIS CALCULATION IS THAT TRUMP WOULD ACTUALLY SUPPORT WHEN IT COMES TO US, ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT OF HIS COMMENT ABOUT CLEANING IT OUT, ET CETERA.

BUT A MORE PRACTICAL SENSE, OF COURSE WE MUCH MORE DIFFICULT UPPER PEOPLE AGAIN NOW THAT THEY ARE BACK, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS PEOPLE THAT I RETURN AND THE PARTY STARTED SETTING UP CAMP IN VARIOUS PARTS OF THE NORTHERN GAZA STRIP AND SO AGAIN, OBVIOUSLY, THERE WILL BE DRASTIC MEASURES IN PARTIES OTHER THAN THE U.S.

BUT ALSO FROM OUR NEIGHBORS AND PEOPLE WHO ARE, OR SHOULD SAY THAT ARE EXPECTED COOPERATE WITH ISRAEL IN THE FUTURE CEASE-FIRE LIMITATION, AS WELL BECAUSE IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT ISRAEL DOES NEED IS PHOTOS ARAB NATIONS OR OTHER COUNTRIES AND OTHER PARTIES TO HELP IN THEIR CONSTRUCTION EVENTUALLY.

>> YEAH, AND THE PRIME MINISTER AND MAYBE SOME OF THE RIGHT WING IN HIS GOVERNMENT MAY BE BANKING ON DONALD TRUMP TO SCREEN LIGHTING ANYTHING.

BUT FROM A LOT OF OUR OWN REPORTING, DONALD TRUMP IS KEEN ON KEEPING THE CEASE-FIRE IN PLACE AND LOOKING EVEN AHEAD TOWARD A SAUDI NORMALIZATION THE THAT WOULD REQUIRE THE CEASE-FIRE TO BE LAMENTED AND GIVEN THAT HE MAY BE THE ONLY VOICE I CAN PUT THE NEEDED PRESSURE ON NETANYAHU TO KEEP THIS DEAL GOING.

I DO WANT TO GET YOU TO RESPOND BEFORE WE MOVED TO LEBANON TO PRESIDENT TRUMP'S REMARKS THAT REALLY SEEMED TO SHOCK THE WORLD ABOUT MOVING PALESTINIANS TO COUNTRIES LIKE JORDAN, EGYPT .

THOSE COUNTRIES AND THEIR LEADERS HAVE FIRMLY SAID THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN BUT HE SEEMS TO HAVE DOUBLE DOWN ON THIS.

WE KNOW PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU IS COMING TO THE STATES AS SOON AS NEXT WEEK.

HOW SHOULD THESE COMMENTS BE INTERPRETED IN YOUR VIEW?

>> IT SHOULD BE NOTED ON THE ONE HAND I MEAN YES, THIS IS A PLATFORM FOR DONALD TRUMP BUT THE KERNELS OF THIS PLAN WERE ALREADY THERE FROM THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

IT'S HARD NOT TO PROTECT -- FORGET THAT ANTONY BLINKEN AND U.S. OFFICIALS ACTUALLY WERE SAYING THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME KIND OF TEMPORARY DISPLACEMENT OF PALESTINIANS WHILE THESE HAPPEN IN THE GAZA STRIP AND AGAIN, THAT WAS REFUSED.

NOW AT THE SAME TIME, OF COURSE, FOR JORDAN, -- MATTER, THE FACT IS IN EGYPT, IS PERHAPS DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT'S A FAR LARGER COUNTRY AND THERE ARE SOME SPACES IN THE SINAI AREA BUT FOR JORDAN, THIS WILL REALLY BE I MEAN IT WILL BE A NO GO BECAUSE JORDAN ALREADY HAS QUITE A LARGE PASSING POPULATION BEGIN WITH.

THAT IS THE FACT -- RELIES ON USAID.

$1.2 BILLION.

AND THAT IS EXISTENTIAL FOR JORDAN WHEN IT COMES TO ITS ANNUAL I GUESS BUDGET.

SO I GUESS FOR JORDAN, IT IS INDEED A PROBLEM.

BUT EITHER WAY, THESE LEADERS HAVE DENIED ANY KIND OF ATTEMPT TO LIMIT THIS PLANT AND IT WILL BE HARD PRESSED TO IMAGINE AGAINST ACCEPTING ANY VERSION OF IT AT THIS POINT.

>> LET'S MOVE TO LEBANON NOW.

THIS EXTENDED CEASE-FIRE NOW THROUGH FEBRUARY 18th.

DO YOU THINK THAT HEZBOLLAH WILL ULTIMATELY DISARM COMPLETELY SOUTH OF THE LATONYA RIVER -- LITANI RIVER .

>> I MEAN AT SOME LEVEL, THERE ARE PEOPLE THERE IN THE SOUTH WHO ARE RESIDENTS OF THE SOUTH WHO ARE LOYAL TO HEZBOLLAH.

YOU COULD ARGUE THAT MUCH OF THE SOUTH IS ACTUALLY LOYAL TO HEZBOLLAH.

NOW WHEN IT COMES TO ARMS, HEZBOLLAH HAS REPEATEDLY SAID THAT IT'S GOING TO GIVE UP THE SOUTH OF THE LITANI RIVER BUT THAT DOESN'T REALLY APPLY TO -- AGAINST LONGER-RANGE MISSILES THAT COULD STILL THREATEN ISRAEL'S NORTH AND AT THE SAME TIME, ISRAEL AT THIS POINT HAS REMAINED IN PLACE IT'S ACTUALLY PREVENTING PEOPLE FROM RETURNING AND IN RECENT DAYS.

AND SO THE EXPECTATION IS THAT ISRAEL MIGHT END UP STAYING FOR A WHILE LONGER WHICH MAY BE A PROBLEM FOR THEM THERE.

>> WHICH WERE ALSO DISENFRANCHISE AND PERHAPS IS EMPOWER THE LEBANESE ARMED FORCES AS WELL, WHICH ONE COULD ARGUE WOULD ONLY BENEFIT HAMAS AT THE END OF THE DAY.

LET'S TALK ABOUT A GRAIN OF POSITIVE NEWS, PERHAPS, IN A COUNTRY THAT IS IN MUCH NEED OF IT AND THAT IS AFTER A LONG POLITICAL GRIDLOCK AND DEADLOCK, THE COUNTRY HAS DECIDED TO CHOOSE A PRESIDENT AND THAT'S -- AND HE APPOINTED PRIME MINISTER'S OF FORMER ICJ PRESIDENT BACKED BY A SAUDI AND IS SEEN AS AN OUTSIDE THE TRADITIONAL POLITICAL OLIGARCHY AND NOTABLY, HEZBOLLAH HAS NOT OR THESE WERE NOT TWO NAMES THAT HEZBOLLAH WOULD HAVE PUT IN CHARGE HERE IS PRESIDENT AND AS PRIME MINISTER.

GIVE US YOUR REACTION TO THIS NEWLY DEVELOPING GOVERNMENT, NONETHELESS.

THERE IS SOME OPTIMISM AROUND ITS POTENTIAL.

TALK ABOUT THE MOOD IN THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW.

>> CERTAINLY, THERE IS OPTIMISM.

IT SHOULD BE SAID THAT HEZBOLLAH, -- THEY THE PRIME MINISTER, IT DID ACTUALLY HELP IN ELECTING JOSEPH BUT IT WAS EXPECTED THERE WILL BE ANOTHER -- IF IT CHOOSES NOT TO, IT'S LOST ITS ABILITY TO SABOTAGE -- BECAUSE OF ITS -- RIGHT NOW AND SO FAR, HAS SOME MAJOR SUPPORT ACROSS THE SPECTRUM.

SO, INDEED, IT'S A MOMENT OF HOPE AND THERE IS ALSO HOPE OF REFORM.

WIDESCALE REFORM ACROSS ALL LEVELS OF THE GOVERNMENT.

FORMING HIS CABINET AND I MEAN JUST TO GIVE YOU A SENSE OF HOW THINGS HAVE CHANGED, IN THE PAST, THE EXPEDITION WAS THE VARIOUS PARTIES WOULD DICTATE WHO WOULD ACTUALLY BE IN CERTAIN MINISTRIES.

FOR EXAMPLE, THIS NOTION OF A PORTION IN CERTAIN MINISTRIES FOR CERTAIN PARTIES OR CERTAIN LEADERS.

THIS ACTUALLY WENT TO THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT.

JUST TO GIVE YOU ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF THIS BUT THE HEAD OF THE NATIONAL MUSIC CONSERVATORY, FOR EXAMPLE, HAD TO BE FIRM IN A CERTAIN SECT.

THAT'S HOW FAR DOWN THE HIERARCHY THIS PORTIONING OF THESE SEGMENTS WENT.

NOW, I SENT ON THIS SAYING HE PLANS TO REMOVE ALL THAT AND HE WILL BE APPOINTING VARIOUS CABINET MEMBERS ACCORDING TO HIS OWN DENIERS -- DESIRES AND FULFILLING THE ENTITIES GIVEN OUT TO THE PALESTINIAN -- SORRY, THE LEBANESE PEOPLE IN PREVIOUS DAYS.

-- A FULL-SCALE -- THE PUBLIC SECTOR IN THE COUNTRY.

>> THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS MUCH NEEDED.

SO ALL OF THESE ARE WELL RECEIVED.

GIVEN WHERE HEZBOLLAH, IRAN ALSO THE WEEKEND, AS WELL.

THERE'S SOMETHING TO BE HAD ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS TO ITS FIGHTERS.

WHETHER IT COULD BE -- INTO THE LEBANESE ARMED FORCES, THERE'S LESSONS TO BE LEARNED FROM THE UNITED STATES AND IRAQ, AS WELL.

DO YOU THINK THAT'S A REALISTIC CONVERSATION HAVE RIGHT NOW AND WHAT IS THE LIKELIHOOD THAT THIS COULD BE LAMENTED?

>> IT'S A HARD QUESTION MOSTLY BECAUSE THE LEBANESE ARMY IN THE PAST HAS BEEN A MATTER OF MAINTAINING THE SECTARIAN BALANCE IN THE COUNTRY.

THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POINT BECAUSE THE LEBANESE ARMY HAS ALWAYS BEEN SEEN ABOVE THE VARIOUS SQUABBLING THAT HAPPENS IN THE WAR AND ELSEWHERE.

LEADERS HAVE BEEN VERY CAREFUL TO MAINTAIN THE SECTARIAN BALANCE WHEN IT COMES TO CHRISTIANS, MUSLIMS, AND THE ARMY AND INTEGRATING WHOLESALE -- BUT OF COURSE, IT COULD CAUSE A MASSIVE IMBALANCE IN THAT REGARD.

AND AT THE SAME TIME, HEZBOLLAH IS AT ITS WEAKEST MONETARILY BECAUSE IT'S LOST SYRIA AND THE SUPPORT TO AN EXTENT BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT REMAINS TO BE THE STRONGEST ACTOR IN THE COUNTRY.

PERHAPS IN MANY WAYS THE MOST ORGANIZED.

NOW THAT HAD TOO MANY -- HEGEMONY IS NOT COMPLETELY OUT OF THE PICTURE.

IT SHOULD BE SAID THAT IT SUPPORT OR PERHAPS THE LOSS OF SUPPORT BECAUSE OF THE WAR BUT NOW THE LONGER REMAINS IN PLACE IN THE SOUTH, AND THE MORE THAT WILL RETURN AND IT SHOULD ALSO BE ADDED THAT HEZBOLLAH HAS NOW ACTUALLY STARTED A FULL-SCALE RECONSTRUCTION EFFORT WHEN IT COMES TO THE VARIOUS AREAS THAT WERE DESTROYED.

IN FACT, I'VE HEARD FROM SEVERAL PEOPLE WHO HAVE RECEIVED CERTAIN PAYMENTS AS COMPENSATION FOR REPAIRING WINDOWS, REPAIRING WALLS, AND MORE EXTENSION RECONSTRUCTION SO THAT IS SOMETHING RIGHT NOW.

>> AND THE CONCERN IS THAT THE MORE HEZBOLLAH FRAMES ITSELF AS LEADING THE CHARGE OF REBUILDING, IT COULD RESTORE SOME OF THE SUPPORTED LOSS OF THE COURSE OF THE LAST YEAR.

ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU, NABIH BULOS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>>> FOR THOSE PALESTINIANS RETURNING TO THEIR HOMES IN NORTHERN GAZA AND THE FAMILIES IN ISRAEL REUNITING WITH THEIR LOVED ONES, CONVERSATION NOW BEGINS TO TURN TO REBUILDING.

PROCESSING AND, YES, EVENTUALLY HEALING.

IT'S NOTHING THAT OUR NEXT GUEST AS AN INTIMATE UNDERSTANDING OF AS A SURVIVOR OF THE HOLOCAUST.

RENOWNED PHYSICIAN, AUTHOR, AND SELF-HELP GROUP DR. GABOR MATE JOINED MICHEL MARTIN TO DISCUSS HIS OWN EXPERIENCES AND HOW THEY INFORMED HIS OWN EXPERIENCES ON TRAUMA, ISRAEL, AND THE PALESTINIAN EXPERIENCE.

>> YOU ARE RENOWNED FOR YOUR WORK AS A PHYSICIAN, AN AUTHOR, A SPEAKER, MANY PEOPLE KNOW YOUR WORK, ESPECIALLY YOUR WORK ABOUT TRAUMA AND THE WAY THAT TRAUMA COULD HAVE GENERATIONAL IMPACT BUT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH YOUR WORK, WOULD YOU MIND DESCRIBING HOW YOUR FAMILIES EXPERIENCE WITH THE HOLOCAUST INFORMS US WORK?

>> I WAS BORN A JEWISH INFANT TWO MONTHS BEFORE THE NAZIS UP BECAUSE I DO MY OWN COUNTRY, HUNGRY.

MY GRANDPARENTS DIED IN AUGUST WAS WHEN I WAS FIVE YEARS OF AGE.

MY -- MY FATHER WAS AWAY FOR THE FIRST YEAR AND A HALF OF MY LIFE AND FORCED LABOR.

I WAS HEAVILY IMPACTED BY THE BOMBING OF THE WAR AND OF COURSE, THE TERROR INFLICTED ON THE JEWISH PEOPLE IN MY HOMELAND AND THAT HAD LIFELONG EFFECTS ON MY FUNDAMENTAL FUNCTIONING AND EMOTIONAL FUNCTIONING.

HOW I FEEL ABOUT MYSELF, I'VE HAD TO DO A LOT OF HEALING TO OVERCOME MANY OF THE IMPACTS OF THAT TRAUMA.

>> HOW DID YOU COME TO KNOW THIS ABOUT YOURSELF BECAUSE I THINK SOME PEOPLE THINK THE EXPERIENCES THAT INFANTS HAVE, YOUR PREVERBAL AT THAT TIME AND SO YOU WOULDN'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO SORT OF ARTICULATE THOSE MEMORIES.

HOW DID YOU COME TO KNOW THAT THOSE EARLY EXPERIENCES HAD SUCH AN IMPACT ON YOUR LIFE?

>> FIRST OF ALL, BY HAVING TO DO WITH MY OWN ISSUES, DIFFICULTY PAYING ATTENTION, MY ADHD TENDENCIES, MY DEPRESSION, MY DESPITE ALL THE SUCCESS THAT I HAD IN THE WORLD AND THEN OF COURSE, AS A PHYSICIAN AND A RESEARCHER AND A READER OF THE RESEARCH, I FOUND OUT ABOUT OUR PREVERBAL EXPERIENCES, EVEN INTER-UTERO EXPERIENCES SHAPED THE HUMAN BRAIN AND HUMAN PERSONALITY.

IT WAS NOT DIFFICULT TO DRAW THE LINES BETWEEN MY EXPERIENCES AND MY LATER CHALLENGES, GIVEN WHAT SCIENCE HAS TOLD US ABOUT THE IMPACT OF YOUR EXPERIENCES AND THE MORE PREVERBAL IT IS, THE DEEPER IT IS, ACTUALLY.

>> OTHER THINGS ABOUT YOUR WORK THAT STRIKES US IS THAT YOU DESCRIBE THE IMPACT OF TRAUMA ON A CELLULAR LEVEL, ON AN INDIVIDUAL LEVEL BUT YOU ALSO DESCRIBE IT AS HAVING SOCIAL IMPACT.

THAT THERE CAN BE TRAUMAS THAT PENETRATE A SOCIETY DEEPLY AND THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS WE CALLED YOU, BECAUSE WE ARE IN THE THROES OF MOMENT OF SORT OF PROFOUND INTERNATIONAL TRAUMA >> YES.

>> LET'S JUST START WITH WHAT HAPPENED IN ISRAEL.

WE ARE MORE THAN A YEAR PASSED THE HAMAS ATTACK ON SOUTHERN ISRAEL.

WHAT IMPACT DO YOU THINK IT HAS HAD, BOTH ON THE PEOPLE WHO DIRECTLY EXPERIENCED IT IT AND ALSO ON THE SOCIETY AT LARGE?

AND OF COURSE, I WILL ASK YOU ABOUT GAZA BECAUSE YES, AS WE ARE SPEAKING NOW, IT'S ESTIMATED THAT NEARLY 15,000 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED SO FAR AND THE NUMBER MAY BE GREATER THAN THAT.

>> LET'S FACE IT, OCTOBER 7th, OVER 1200 PEOPLE WERE KILLED AND THAT CAME UP AS A HUGE SHOCK TO ISRAELIS AND MANY OF THEM EXPERIENCED IT AS VERY DRAMATIC, AS WE WERE EXPECTING THEM TO COME AND THAT'S NATURAL AND UNDERSTANDABLE AND WE CAN ONLY FEEL WITH THEM FOR THE SHOCK AND THE TRAUMA THEY EXPERIENCED.

ALL THE MORE SO SINCE THEY GREW OFF IN ISRAEL AND I'M SPEAKING AS A FORMER ZIONIST AND SPEAKING AS A JEW, AS SOMEONE WHO'S BEEN TO ISRAEL, GAZA, THE WEST BANK, BEEN TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES, AS WORKED WITH ISRAELI PSYCHOLOGIST AND PALESTINIAN THERAPIST AND PSYCHOLOGISTS AND THE ISRAEL MENTALITY HAS WAS BEEN THAT WE ARE UNDER ATTACK, WE ARE UNDER THREAT, THEY ARE ALL AGAINST US AND OCTOBER 7th, THAT WAS SOMETHING MORE CONFIRMATION OF WHAT THEY HAD ALREADY BELIEVED.

-- HISTORY DID NOT BEGIN ON OCTOBER THE SEVENTH.

THERE'S A CONFLICT THERE THAT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR AT LEAST 1947, '48 BUT IF YOU LOOK AT IT HISTORICALLY, IT'S BEEN GOING FOR 150 YEARS.

AND SO THAT TERRIBLE EVENT OF OCTOBER THE SEVENTH WAS ONE MORE MANIFESTATION OF A INTRACTABLE AND GENERALLY DESTRUCTIVE, TRAUMATIC CONFLICT THAT HAS BESET IN THE WORLD FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

SO IT'S NOT JUST -- THE SHOCK AND TRAUMA OF OCTOBER 7th, WE CANNOT SEPARATE IT FROM HISTORY.

>> OBVIOUSLY, ISRAELIS OFTEN FEEL THAT THEY ARE SINGLED OUT FOR SORT OF A MORAL SCRUTINY THAT IS NOT DIRECTED AT OTHERS BUT HAVING SAID THAT, I'M JUST WONDERING IF YOU THINK OVERALL DOES THAT EXPERIENCE OF INHERITED TRAUMA AND EXPERIENCE TRAUMA IN REAL TIME, DO YOU THINK IT'S INFLUENCING THE WAY ISRAELI LEADERSHIP AND ISRAELI SOCIETY IS RESPONDING TO WHAT HAPPENED?

>> IT'S INTERESTING THAT ONE MORE TIME WE BEGAN WITH THE EXPERIENCE AND -- ISRAELIS.

WHEREAS IF YOU LOOK AT HISTORICALLY, BY VAST GAP THE GREATEST TRAUMA HAS BEEN INFLICTED ON THE PALESTINIANS FOR DECADES.

>> SAY MORE ABOUT THAT THEN.

SAY MORE ABOUT WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT.

>> WELL, IN JUST 1947, '48, THERE WERE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PALESTINIANS MASSACRED BY THE ISRAELIS AND THE LEBANESE WAR.

20,000 CIVILIANS WERE KILLED BY THE ISRAELIS IN LEBANON, CIVILIANS AND I COULD NAME YOU MULTIPLE MASSACRES OF PALESTINIANS DOCUMENTED BY ISRAELI HISTORIANS.

I'M NOT REPEATING THEIR PROPAGANDA HERE.

I'M TELLING YOU WHAT ISRAELI HISTORIANS HAVE UNEARTHED AND DOCUMENTED AND PROVEN WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT.

AND IN THE WEST, WE TEND NOT TO TALK ABOUT THAT.

WE TEND TO TALK ABOUT ISRAELIS, PURELY AS VICTIMS.

BUT SURELY, ISRAELIS HAVE BEEN VICTIMIZED.

IT'S BEEN TERRIBLE, TERRORISM THAT THEY HAVE SUFFERED.

NOBODY IS QUESTIONING THAT AND NOBODY IS JUSTIFYING IT, EITHER.

BUT IT HAPPENED IN A CONTEXT.

SO WHEN THE ISRAELIS BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE SINGLED OUT, THEY ARE NOT SINGLED OUT FOR NEARLY THE CRITICISM THE PALESTINIAN SIDE HAS RECEIVED OVER THE DECADES.

DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE PALESTINIANS HAVE SUFFERED A LOT MORE.

AND I HATE TO COMPARE SUFFERING.

IN TERMS OF NUMBERS AND IN TERMS OF POWER AND THE LOSS OF LANDS, PRESSURE, DISCRIMINATION, THERE'S NO COMPARISON IN ACTUAL PRACTICE AND ANYBODY WHO GOES THERE, LIKE I HAVE, AND YOU SEE WITH YOUR OWN EYES, YOU CAN'T HELP BUT COME TO THAT CONCLUSION.

NOW, WHAT'S ALSO TRUE GIVEN JEWISH HISTORY, EVEN THE HISTORICAL AND UNSPEAKABLE SUFFERING THAT THE JEWISH PEOPLE, NOT JUST, OF COURSE, PRIMARILY BUT NOT JUST DURING THE GENOCIDE BUT HUNDREDS OF YEARS BEFORE THAT AND HUNDREDS OF YEARS BEFORE THAT.

IT'S KIND OF NATURAL FOR MANY JEWS TO PERCEIVE THEMSELVES AS ALWAYS BEING THERE UNDER ATTACK.

IT'S VIEWED FROM THAT LENS OF HISTORICAL PERSECUTION.

I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY THAT SHOULD BE THE CASE, BUT IT DOESN'T MAKE IT ACCURATE.

BECAUSE IT REMOVES FROM THE EQUATION THE PALESTINIAN EXPERIENCE THAT WE TEND NOT TO LOOK AT.

>> LET'S PROCEED THERE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, MISSY, AS A JOURNALIST, I HAVE MY OWN LENS HERE AND ONE OF THE LENSES THROUGH WHICH I'M LOOKING AT THIS IS THE FACT THAT IN ABOUT A JOURNALIST HAVE NOT BEEN PERMITTED TO GO TO GAZA DURING THIS CONFLICT BUT WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE THAT THERE HAS BEEN VAST DESTRUCTION AND WE KNOW, ACCORDING TO HEALTH AUTHORITIES THERE THAT THERE HAS BEEN TREMENDOUS DEATH AND SUFFERING AND IN SOME PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, PEOPLE ARE ON THE VERGE OF STARVATION IF THEY ARE NOT STARTING ALREADY.

THIS IS BEEN DOCUMENTED BY INTERNATIONAL AGENCIES THAT HAVE HAD ACCESS TO THAT AREA.

SO IF YOU COULD JUST DESCRIBE THAT.

I'M RECOGNIZING WHAT YOU SAID THAT THIS IS A MOMENT IN TIME BUT JUST THIS MOMENT IN TIME FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING THROUGH THAT.

>> IN THE JOURNAL OF PSYCHIATRY IN 2006, THERE WAS A STUDY OF PALESTINIAN KIDS.

THIS WAS BEFORE HAMAS CAME TO POWER.

LET'S BEGIN THE ASSUMPTION THAT IT ALL STARTED WHEN HAMAS TOOK TO POWER.

THIS WAS BEFORE THEY TOOK TO POWER IN GAZA.

AND 97% OF PALESTINIAN, OF GAZAN CHILDREN SHOWED SIGNS OF POSTTRAUMATIC STRESS, WE ARE TALKING 20 YEARS AGO NOW.

MANY OF THEM WHAT THEIR BEDS, I WET MY BED UNTIL I WAS 13 YEARS OF AGE AS A RESULT OF MY EXPERIENCE AS A JEWISH INFANT IN THE SECOND WAR.

UNDER THE NAZIS.

A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF PALESTINIANS OVER 20 YEARS AGO.

THEY HAD SYMPTOMS OF NIGHTMARES , EXHIBITED SYMPTOMS OF AGGRESSION TOWARDS THE PARENTS, THERE IS A STUDY OF PALESTINIAN KIDS JUST IN DECEMBER OF THIS LAST YEAR.

96% OF THEM THOUGHT THAT DEATH WAS IMMINENT.

79% SUFFERED FROM NIGHTMARES, 73% EXHIBITED SYMPTOMS OF AGGRESSION.

IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT WAS OBSERVED IN THIS JOURNAL OF PSYCHIATRY OVER 20 YEARS AGO AS AN ONLY BECOME THAT MUCH MORE EXACERBATED.

AND THAT'S THE REALITY.

AND WHAT TO SAY MARK HOW CAN I, GIVEN WHAT I'VE EXPERIENCES AS A JEWISH INFANT AND SOMEONE WHO GREW UP IN HUNGARY BEFORE WE CAME TO CANADA, HOW CAN I NOT FEEL WITH THESE KIDS, HAVING SEEN WHAT THEY ARE -- HAVING SEEN HOW THEY LIVED EVEN BEFORE THIS CURRENT CONFLICT?

SINCE THE HORRENDOUS SITUATION AND WE JUST CAN'T RESTRICT OUR EMPATHY TO ONE SIDE.

AND WE ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT THE POWER OF RELATIONSHIPS.

ON THE ONE SIDE, ONE SIDE HAS BEEN FLICKING ON THE OTHER AND WITH GREAT PROPONENTS.

IF YOU GO TO THE WEST BANK, AS I WAS THERE 2 1/2 YEARS AGO, WORKING WITH POSTGAME WOMEN WOULD BEEN TORTURED IN ISRAEL IN JAILS, WHAT YOU HEAR ALL THE TIME IS THAT THERE'S NO POSTER MEDIC STRESS DISORDER HERE BECAUSE THE TRAUMA IS NEVER POST.

IT'S ONGOING AND SO -- IF WE ARE GOING TO DEAL WITH THIS IN A HUMANE WAY IN A HUMAN WAY IN A SCIENTIFIC WAY, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE OVERALL CONTEXT.

AND EXTEND AT LEAST AS MUCH EMPATHY TO ONE SIDE AS TO THE OTHER.

>> SO WHAT IS THE WAY FORWARD HERE, WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO, I MEAN BECAUSE THERE'S THE THE HUMAN SUFFERING AND THEN THERE'S THE POLITICS OF THE MOMENT AND THEN THE POLITICS OF THE MOMENT OFTEN EITHER THEY SHAPE HUMAN SUFFERING OR THEY SOMETIMES OBLITERATE OR SKEW HUMAN SUFFERING.

SO WHAT IS THE WAY FORWARD HERE.

>> FIRST OF ALL, WE NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE SUFFERING ON ALL SIDES AND THE TRAUMA ON ALL SIDES.

THE HISTORICAL TRAUMA, THAT WAS THE IMPETUS FOR THE ZIONIST PROJECT AND THE HISTORICAL TRAUMA THAT THE ZIONIST PROJECT HAS INFLICTED ON ME, PALESTINIAN PEOPLE AND CONTINUES TO.

WE HAVE TO KEEP PAYING MORE ATTENTION, I BELIEVE TO THOSE ISRAELIS, THE SMALL MINORITY.

IN ANY COUNTRY, AND ANY TIME, THERE'S SOMETHING VERY BEAUTIFUL ABOUT THEIR JURISDICTION.

WAS MOST BEAUTIFUL THINGS ABOUT JEWISH TRADITION IS A POETIC TRADITION AND THE PROFITS FOR PEOPLE THAT -- THE PUBLIC OPINION AND THEY DIDN'T KOWTOW TO THE LEADERS.

THEY SAID THERE'S A HIGHER VALUE.

IS A HIGHER GOD.

THERE'S A HIGHER TRUTH THEN NATIONALISM, THEN CHAUVINISM, THEN DEFERENCE TO AUTHORITY.

IT'S TO THAT HIGHER TRUTH THAT WE PAY ATTENTION TO.

AND THERE ARE PEOPLE IN ISRAEL NOW WHO ADVOCATE THAT.

BUT WE NEVER, WE RARELY HEAR THEIR VOICES IN THE WEST SO THEY NEED TO PAY MORE ATTENTION.

I THINK THE UNCONDITIONAL SUPPORT FOR THE CONTINUED SUPPRESSION OF THE PALESTINIANS, THE ATTACK ON VILLAGES IN THE WEST BANK, THAT'S GOING ON CURRENTLY EVEN AFTER THE CEASE- FIRE IN GAZA, LARGELY UNQUESTIONED ACCEPTANCE OF THE ISRAELI PERSPECTIVE NEEDS TO BE CHALLENGED I THINK THE PALESTINIANS ALSO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE FACT THAT THEY'VE DONE SOME HORRIBLE THINGS OR SOME HORRIBLE THINGS HAVE BEEN DONE IN THEIR NAME.

THEY NEED TO DEAL WITH THAT.

NEED TO TAKE RESPONSIBLY FOR THAT.

I THINK WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IN GENERAL IN HUMAN LIFE IS THAT PEOPLE TAKE RESPONSIBLY FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS AND NOT JUST SEE THEMSELVES ALL THE TIME AS VICTIMS OF THE OTHER BUT TO RECOGNIZE WHAT THEY HAVE DONE FOR THEMSELVES.

>> YOUR LATEST BOOK IS THE MYTH OF NORMAL: TRAUMA, ILLNESS, AND HEALING IN A TOXIC CULTURE .

>> I WROTE THAT WITH MY SON, DANIEL, YES.

>> WHAT SHOULD WE DRAW FROM THIS IN THE CURRENT MOMENT?

>> WHAT I WAS POINTING OUT NETBOOK IS THE INSEPARABILITY OF THE MIND FROM THE BODY.

UNITY OF MIND AND BODY AND HUMAN HEALTH AND ILLNESS.

WHICH ALSO MEANS THE INSEPARABILITY OF THE INDIVIDUAL FOR ME IN THE ENVIRONMENT.

BECAUSE OUR MINDS AND EMOTIONS ARE SHAPED BY OUR RELATIONSHIPS SO THAT YOU CAN SEPARATE INDIVIDUAL FROM THE CULTURE FROM THE SOCIETY, FROM THE COMMUNITY, FROM THE HISTORY.

MULTIGENERATIONAL.

SO THAT ALL KINDS OF CONDITIONS THAT ARE THOUGHT TO BE DISCRETE ILLNESSES, THEY SHOW UP AS FORMS OF DISEASE ACTUALLY RELATABLE TO PEOPLE'S EXPERIENCE IN LIFE.

AND TO THE CULTURE IN WHICH THEY LIVE.

WHICH ALSO MEANS THAT THE CULTURE NEEDS TO HEAL AS MUCH AS INDIVIDUALS NEED TO HEAL AND IN THE BOOK, WE POINT OUT THE WAYS IN WHICH TRAUMA SHOWS UP IN PEOPLE'S LIVES, PERSONAL LIVES, HEALTH, MENTAL HEALTH, PHYSICAL HEALTH ADDICTIONS, OTHER AFFLICTIONS.

ALSO, IN SOCIAL AND POLITICAL LIFE.

WE ALSO POINT TO SOME PATHWAYS TOWARD HEALING.

SO ON THE WHOLE, THE BOOK HAS A POSITIVE MESSAGE BUT IT DOES HAVE TO BEGIN WITH LOOKING AT HOW THINGS ARE VERY OBJECTIVELY AND NOT SEPARATED PHENOMENA THAT CAN'T BE SEPARATED NOT SEPARATE THE MIND AND THE BODY NOT SEPARATE THE EMOTIONS FROM THE PHYSIOLOGY.

NOT SEPARATE THE INDIVIDUAL FROM THE -- NOT SEPARATE THE ENVIRONMENT FROM THE CULTURE.

AND NOT SEPARATE THE CULTURE FROM THE WHOLE UNIVERSAL WORLD THAT WE ALL SHARE.

>> BUT THIS IS WHERE I KEEP GOING BACK TO THE EXPERIENCE OF THE HOLOCAUST AND ALSO, THE EXPERIENCES THAT PALESTINIANS HAVE HAD NOW FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, THEIR CULTURE IS A SOURCE OF STRENGTH.

IF THESE, IT'S A SOURCE OF STRENGTH, A SOURCE OF IDENTITY, IT'S A SOURCE OF BELONGING.

I THINK THAT'S ONE REASON WHY PEOPLE -- ENGAGED FROM THIS HISTORY THAT WE SHARE.

HOW DO YOU EXTRICATE ONE FROM THE OTHER.

>> WELL, I THINK YOU JUST UPON TOUCHED UPON A FEW QUESTIONS IN THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION.

I THINK THE TRAUMA IS NOT WHAT HAPPENED TO US.

TRAUMA IS WHAT HAPPENS INSIDE OF US IN A RESULT OF WHAT HAPPENED TO US.

LET'S SAY WE GO BACK TO THE TRAUMA OF ME BEING GIVEN BY MY MOTHER TO A STRANGER IN THE STREET, WHICH IS WHAT HAPPENED.

I DIDN'T SEE HER FOR SIX WEEKS IN MY LIFE WAS SAVED, THANKS TO THIS CHRISTIAN WOMAN.

WHO AND I DIDN'T SEE MY MOTHER FOR SIX WEEKS.

THAT WASN'T A TRAUMA, THAT WAS A TRAUMATIC EVENT.

THE TRAUMA WAS, THE BELIEF THAT I DEVELOPED THAT I WAS UNLOVABLE BECAUSE WHO GETS GIVEN AWAY, SOMEONE IS NOT LOVABLE.

THE TRAUMA WASN'T THAT I DIDN'T SEE MY MOTHER ALL THOSE WEEKS, THE TRAUMA WAS THAT I BEGAN TO BELIEVE IN A WORLD THAT'S NOT SAFE AND WHICH I DON'T BELONG SO THOSE TRAUMATIC -- AND TRAUMA LITERALLY MEANS WOUND.

TRAUMA IS A WOUND IT'S NOT THE WOUND -- WOUNDING EVENT, IT'S THE WOUND ITSELF.

AND IF WE CARRY THE WOUND IN THE PRESENT FROM FROM SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST, WE DON'T HAVE TO HEAL THE PAST, WE HAVE TO HEAL THE WOUND IN THE PRESENT.

AND I CAN HEAL THE WOUND OF BELIEVING THAT I'M NOT LOVABLE.

I CAN HEAL THE WOUND THAT I BELIEVE THAT I LIVE IN A WORLD THAT DOESN'T EXCITE ME OR DOESN'T LOVE ME AND WHICH I CAN'T FIND SAFETY.

I CAN HEAL THOSE WOUNDS SO THE THING ABOUT HEALING TRAUMA IS NOT TO KEEP LOOKING AT THE PAST AND NOT TO BE IDENTIFIED BY THE PAST WHO ARE WE AT THIS PRESENT MOMENT.

AS HUMAN BEINGS SO THAT THE PAST DOESN'T DEFINE US.

IT INFORMS US, IT EXPLAINS A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT US, WHAT WE ARE NOT OUR PAST.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

IT'S A PLEASURE TO SPEAK WITH YOU, AS WELL.

>> REALLY POWERFUL CONVERSATION THERE.

AND FINALLY.

>>> SAY GOODBYE TO THE YEAR OF THE DRAGON.

TRADITIONAL PUPPETRY AND PARADES ARE IN FULL SWING AS COMMUNITIES RING IN THE LUNAR NEW YEAR.

THE MOST IMPORTANT EVENT ON THE CHINESE CALENDAR.

AS WEDNESDAY BEGINS IN TIME ZONES AROUND THE WORLD, WITH IT COMES A NEW ANIMAL FROM THE CHINESE ZODIAC CALENDAR.

2025 IS THE YEAR OF THE SNAKE, SEEN HERE ELIMINATING THE WORLD'S TALLEST BUILDING, IN DUBAI, IT SUPPOSEDLY SIGNIFIES PHILOSOPHY AND INTELLIGENCE.

AND THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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