>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

AUTHORITIES SAY THERE ARE NO SURVIVORS AFTER A MID-AIR COLLISION OVER WASHINGTON'S VAGUE NATIONAL AIRPORT.

THEN AS PRESIDENT TRUMP'S CABINET PICKS THEIR CONFIRMATION HEARINGS, A SHAKE-UP AT THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY SPARKS FEARS AMONGST CLIMATE 55thS.

THE FORMER CHIEF, GENA McCARTHY JOINS ME ON HOW TRUMP'S POLICY THERE'S IMPACT A FIERY AND FLOODED AMERICA AND BEYOND.

PLUS, WHAT ARE RFK JR. WILL MEAN FOR THE HEALTH OF THE UNITED STATES.

LIFE IMITATES ART IN A BROADWAY PLAY ON THE DANGERS OF HEALTH MISINFORMATION AND THE STARS OF "EUREKA DAY" JOIN ME.

ALSO AHEAD, SPY VERSUS AI.

CYBER SECURITY EXPERT ANNE NEUBERGER SPEAKS TO ME.

>>> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.

SETON J. MELVIN.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN.

COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

A MASSIVE RECOVERY OPERATION IS UNDERWAY IN WASHINGTON'S POTOMAC RIVER AFTER A PASSENGER AIRCRAFT CARRYING 64 PEOPLE COLLIDED MID AIR WITH AN ARMY BLACK HAWK HELICOPTER CARRYING THREE SOLDIERS.

AUTHORITIES SAY THERE ARE NO SURVIVORS.

THE COLLISION HAPPENED NEAR REAGAN NATIONAL AIRPORT AND MORE THAN 300 FIRST RESPONDERS HAVE BEEN WORKING AROUND THE CLOCK.

AS THOSE DESPERATE EFFORTS TO FIND THE BODIES OF THE VICTIMS CONTINUE, PRESIDENT TRUMP ADDRESSED THE NATION AND WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE, LAID THE BLAME ON DEMOCRATS AND DEI.

>> I PUT SAFETY FIRST.

OBAMA, BIDEN, AND THE DEMOCRATS PUT POLICY FIRST.

AND THEY PUT POLITICS AT A LEVEL THAT NOBODY HAS EVER SEEN BECAUSE THIS WAS THE LOWEST LEVEL.

THE INITIATIVE IS PART OF THE FAA'S DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION HIRING PLAN WHICH SAYS DIVERSITY IS INTEGRAL TO ACHIEVING FAA'S MISSION OF ENSURING SAFE AND EFFICIENT TRAVEL.

I DON'T THINK SO.

>> WE'RE JOINED BY OUR CNN COLLEAGUE, MILES O'BRIEN, AN AVIATION EXPERT.

YOU HAVE COVERED SO MANY OF THESE TERRIBLE TRAGEDIES.

THE TRUTH IS THERE HASN'T BEEN A MID-AIR COLLISION OR A COLLISION IN WASHINGTON FOR MANY, MANY, MANY YEARS.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE PRESIDENT IMMEDIATELY BLAMING IT, I MEAN, LITERALLY BODIES ARE STILL IN THE RIVER, ON POLITICS?

>> WELL, I CAN ONLY IMAGINE WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE A FAMILY MEMBER OF A LOVED ONE WHO WAS LOST.

IT JUST, IT IS NOT ONLY INCORRECT, PREMATURE AND NOT PAYING ANY DEFERENCE, HARD-WORKING INVESTIGATORS, INCLUDING FIRST RESPONSIBLERS, TO TRY TO SUMMARILY ASSIGN BLAME FOR SOMETHING TO WHICH THERE IS NO DATA FOR.

I CAN IMAGINE IT NOT LANDING WELL ON THE EARS OF THOSE WHO HAVE LOST THEIR LOVED ONES.

AND IT IS NOT CONSTRUCTIVE, ULTIMATELY, TO THE REAL MISSION HERE, WHICH IS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT HAPPENED AND TRY TO FIX THE SYSTEM SO IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN.

>> I'M GOING TO GET TO THAT IN A SECOND.

I WANT TO PUSH BECAUSE THIS SEEMS TO BE A PATTERN NOW.

THIS IS WHAT TRUMP AND HIS PEOPLE WILL BE SAYING ABOUT ANYTHING THAT GOES WRONG.

THEY'VE ALREADY STARTED THIS ON THE MOST INCREDIBLE OF DAYS AND INCREDIBLE TRAGEDIES.

HE BASICALLY SAID THE FAA IS RIDDLED WITH THE ACCEPTANCE OF EMPLOYEES INCLUDING WITH INTELLECTUAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL DISABILITIES.

THIS PROGRAM HAS BEEN IN PLACE WITH GETTING PEOPLE, THE FAA SAID ONLY FULLY QUALIFIED PEOPLE WILL BE PUT IN THE ROLES THAT REQUIRE FULL AND HARD, YOU KNOW, FACTUAL QUALIFICATION FOR THESE KINDS OF ROLES.

IN ALL YOUR COVERAGE, HAS THIS EVER BEEN AN ISSUE?

>> NO.

>> I HAVE TO SAY AS A PERSONAL NOTE, I'M A DISABLED AMERICAN.

I'M MISSING AN ARM.

AND I FLY AN AIRPLANE UNDER GREAT SCRUTINY WITH THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION.

THIS DID NOT HAPPEN WITHOUT ME GOING THROUGH ALL KINDS OF HOOPS.

AND ANYBODY WHO MIGHT HAVE A DISABILITY INSIDE THE FAA IS GOING TO HAVE TO MEET ANY SAFETY STANDARD THAT THE FAA HAS FOR WHATEVER POSITION THEY MIGHT BE IN.

TO ASSUME THAT AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL IS SOMEHOW INHIBITED BECAUSE OF PEOPLE WHO ARE DISABLED, IT'S REALLY A HORRIBLE COMMENT, NUMBER ONE.

IT'S SIMPLY NOT TRUE.

AND IT TAKES AWAY FROM THE VERY IMPORTANT WORK OF FINDING OUT WHAT REALLY HAPPENED HERE.

>> SO IN THAT REGARD, LET'S TURN TO THAT.

LET'S TURN TOWARD THE NEW TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY, SEAN DUFFY, SAID ABOUT THESE COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE CONTROL TOWER.

>> THERE WAS COMMUNICATION.

IT WAS, I WOULD SAY, STANDARD COMMUNICATION.

SO THERE WAS NOT A BREAKDOWN, IF THAT IS YOUR QUESTION, IN COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE MILITARY HELICOPTER AND THE AMERICAN AIRLINE FLIGHT.

THERE WAS COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE AIRCRAFT AND THE TOWER.

>> SO MILES, WHAT DOES THAT SAY TO YOU?

I MEAN, HERE IS AN AIRCRAFT, A PASSENGER CRAFT COMING IN, I THINK, TO LAND.

AND THERE WAS A TRAINING MISSION WITH A, YOU KNOW, BLACK HAWK HELICOPTER, AN ARMY HELICOPTER.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM YOUR SOURCES ABOUT WHAT COULD HAVE LED TO THIS?

>> WELL, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE ARCHITECTURE OF AIR TRAFFIC IN WASHINGTON.

YOU HAVE WASHINGTON NATIONAL AIRPORT RIGHT ALONG THE POTOMAC RIVER.

IT ALSO HAPPENS TO BE THE HELICOPTER CORRIDOR UP AND DOWN THE POTOMAC RIVER.

SOME OF IT IS ABOUT NOISE ABATEMENT BUT SOME OF IT IS ABOUT THE AIR SPACE AROUND WASHINGTON WHICH FORCES THE HELICOPTERS ON TO THE RIVER AND ALONGSIDE NATIONAL AIRPORT.

TO HAVE LOW-LEVEL HELICOPTERS FLYING UNDERNEATH ON APPROACH TO NATIONAL AIRPORT IS NOT A GOOD DESIGN.

ON A GOOD DAY, THE.

A SEPARATION BETWEEN AN AIRCRAFT TRYING TO LAND ON THAT RUNWAY AND THAT HELICOPTER CORRIDOR IS A MATTER OF A COUPLE HUNDRED FEET.

SO PUT YOURSELF IN THE POSITION OF NIGHTTIME.

VISUAL CONDITIONS.

THE HELICOPTER IS SUPPOSED TO SEE AND AVOID OTHER TRAFFIC.

IT IS THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO DO THAT.

AND YOU'RE IN A CITY.

IT IS NIGHTTIME, A MOONLESS NIGHT, BUT ALSO LIT BY THOUSANDS OF LIGHTS.

IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO SPOT AIR TRAFFIC.

IT IS DIFFICULT TO SPOT LANDMARKS ON THE GROUND AT NIGHT WHEN YOU'RE FLYING UNDER VISUAL FLIGHT RULES.

SO AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL TOLD THAT HELICOPTER TO LOOK FOR THAT CRJ, THAT REGIONAL JET, AND FLY BEHIND IT.

IT IS QUITE POSSIBLE THAT THEY HAD A DIFFICULT TIME IDENTIFYING IT.

IN THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES AND MIGHT HAVE TRIED TO, MIGHT HAVE BEEN FOCUSED ON ANOTHER OBJECT.

ANOTHER AIRCRAFT OR MAYBE EVEN SOME LIGHT ON THE GROUND WHICH MIGHT HAVE DISTRACTED THEM.

THE HUMAN EYE IS LIMITED AT NIGHT.

>> MILES, YOU KNOW, WITH ALL THIS POLITICAL ACCUSATIONS AND CONFUSION BEING SEWN NOW, THERE HAS TO BE A PHYSICAL FACT-BASED INVESTIGATION.

PRESUMABLY THE NTSB WILL LEAD THAT AS IT NORMALLY DOES.

YOU CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.

I WANT TO ASK YOU, THERE HAS BEEN AN INCREASE AROUND THE UNITED STATES OF REPORTS OF NEAR MISSES.

IS THIS SORT OF AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN?

CAN YOU FILL ME IN ON THAT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THIS IS THE ACCIDENT WE HAVE BEEN DREADING.

THE SYSTEM, CHRISTIANE, HAS BEEN BLINKING RED FOR YEARS IN THE UNITED STATES.

AIR TRAFFIC HAS INCREASED POST PANDEMIC.

IT'S NOT AS IF WE'RE POURING NEW CONCRETE FOR RUNWAYS.

THERE ARE THESE CHOKE POINTS AROUND RUNWAYS WITH INCREASED TRAFFIC.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, REAGAN NATIONAL HAS HAD A RECENT INCREASE IN TRAFFIC AS IT ALLOWED LONGER DISTANCE FLIGHTS IN AND OUT.

SO EVENTUALLY, THE SYSTEM IS BURSTING AT THE SEAMS.

COUPLE THAT WITH THE FACT THE AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL SYSTEM IS STILL RECOVERING FROM THE PANDEMIC.

MANY AIRCRAFT CONTROLLERS RETIRED IN THE MIDST OF THAT.

YOU HAVE AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL STRETCHED AND FATIGUED.

YOU HAVE THE SAME SITUATION IN THE COCKPITS.

A LOT OF NEW, LESS EXPERIENCED PILOTS FLYING POST PANDEMIC AND A LOT OF TRAFFIC.

ALL THOSE COMBINED TO BLINK RED.

>> IT IS DEFINITELY BLINKING RED.

IT IS ALWAYS GOOD TO GET YOUR EXPERTISE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH INDEED.

>>> ON CAPITOL HILL, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S PICKS FACED SENATE HEARINGS.

TODAY LAWMAKERS ARE GRILLING TULSI GABBARD AND KASH PATEL RFK JR. IS UNDERGOING EXAMINATION FOR A SECOND DAY.

HIS PICK TO LEAD THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY WAS CONFIRMED YESTERDAY WHERE A RESET, APPARENTLY, IS AFOOT.

LIKE LAST TIME, TRUMP HAS SERVED NOTICE HE'S PULLING OUT OF THE PARIS CLIMATE ACCORD AND HE'S DECLARED A NATIONAL EMERGENCY TO TURBO CHARGE OIL PRODUCTION.

WHILE WILD FLIERS AND HURRICANES WREAK HAVOC, ALL EXACERBATED BY CLIMATE CHANGE AND SOARING TEMPERATURES, ACCORDING TO THE SCIENCE.

GINA McCARTHY WAS PRESIDENT BIDEN'S TOP CLIMATE ADVISER AND SHE'S JOINING US NOW FROM BOSTON.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

HERE WE HAVE A REAL-LIVE CRISIS.

WE HAVE A REAL-LIVE AIR CRISIS.

AND PRESIDENT TRUMP IS POINTING FINGERS.

WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN?

LET'S SAY ON THE CLIMATE CRISIS, IF THIS IS THE ENVIRONMENT THAT WE NOW LIVE IN?

THAT IMMEDIATELY, IT IS ABOUT DEI INSTEAD OF ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE.

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THANKS FOR HAVING ME BACK AGAIN.

YOU KNOW, I SIMPLY CANNOT EXPLAIN THE IGNORANCE OF THIS ADMINISTRATION.

I SIMPLY CANNOT UNDERSTAND HOW THEY CAN SIT THERE AND BLAME DIVERSITY, EQUITY, AND INCLUSION FOR THIS TYPE OF HUMAN TOLL.

WE SAW THE PRESIDENT STANDING UP THERE AND HE SAID TWO MINUTES OF CONDOLENCES.

AND THEN WENT INTO A RAMPAGE OF WHY THIS IS THE PROBLEM FOR THE DEMOCRATS AND POLITICIANS AND OTHERS.

YOU KNOW, HE JUST CAN'T SEEM TO HAVE A COHERENT THOUGHT THAT HE CAN SORT OF ARTICULATE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ABOUT BOTH THE TRAGEDY OF THAT PROBLEM AND HOW HE'S GOING TO WORK FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND BEYOND.

HE'S JUST A BITTER MAN THAT CAN'T SEEM TO GET OUT OF HIS OWN WAY.

IT'S NOT JUST SAD.

IT'S FRANKLY IT FROM LY FRIGHT >> MAYBE THIS IS AN ACTUAL POLICY FOR WHATEVER REASON FOR THIS ADMINISTRATION TO BLAME THINGS LIKE DEI.

THEY'VE COME IN AND STARTED FROM THE TOP.

HE EVEN WENT TO CALIFORNIA.

THIS IS IN YOUR LANE.

AND TALKED ABOUT DEI BEING AMONGST THE PROBLEMS THAT EXACERBATED OR CAUSED THE FIRES.

I GUESS, MAY QUESTION STILL IS, SO HOW DOES THAT IMPROVE, FIX, OR MITIGATE THESE REAL DANGER THAT'S AMERICA FACES?

WHETHER IT IS OVERCROWDING IN THE SKIES, CLIMATE AND THE RESULTS.

>> YEAH.

THESE ARE NOT SOLUTIONS THAT HE'S OFFERING.

HE IS TRYING TO PLACE BLAME WHERE HE WANTS TO PUT IT.

AND DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION IS NOT ABOUT HIRING INCOMPETENT ABOUT HUMAN BEELGS EVERY BEINGS TO DO CRITICAL JOBS.

IT IS EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

IT IS GIVING EVERYBODY A FAIR SHAKE TO ACTUALLY HAVE THE KIND OF JOB THAT THEY'RE GOOD AT.

SO THIS IS ALL, YOU KNOW, I REALLY CAN'T EXPLAIN IT.

I'M LIVING IN AN ADMINISTRATION WHOSE DISDAIN FOR THE LAW IS SIMPLY BEING OVERSHADOWED BY THEIR IGNORANCE OF THE LAW.

SO WE ALL HAVE TO STEP UP HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

WE HAVE TO STAND UP AND RECOGNIZE THAT OUR COUNTRY IS ABOUT LAW AND ORDER.

OUR IMPORTANCE IN THE WORLD IS BEING DIMINISHED BY A SINGLE HUMAN BEING WHO DOESN'T WANT TO ADDRESS ANY CHALLENGE.

HE SIMPLY WANTS TO LAY BLAME FOR EVERYTHING THAT HE SEES IS WRONG IN THE WORLD TODAY.

WE HAVE TO STEP BACK.

WE HAVE TO START WORKING.

IF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOESN'T WANT TO WORK FOR US, WE HAVE TO GRAB STATES AND CITIES WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO NOW.

>> YOU KNOW, YES, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

BUT HE DOES HAVE, TO GET ELECTED AND HE PROMISED A LOT OF THINGS.

I'M TALKING ABOUT NOW IN YOUR CLIMATE REALM.

HE APPARENTLY, ACCORDING TO SOME REPORTS, HE PERSUADED OR TRIES TO PERSUADE FOSSIL FUELERS TO VOTE FOR HIM.

TO THE RAISE, AS HE SAID, A BILLION, BECAUSE HE WOULD HELP THEM OUT AND YOU KNOW, ADVANCE THEIR CAUSE.

SO WHAT NOW DOES THIS MEAN?

HE'S IN OFFICE.

WE KNOW THAT THERE IS A CLIMATE CRISIS.

AND HE'S DECIDED THERE IS A NATIONAL EMERGENCY.

THEREFORE, IT NEEDS MORE OIL DRILLING.

MORE FOSSIL FUELS INTO THE ATMOSPHERE.

AND HE'S ALREADY IN HIS FIRST WEEK ELIMINATED MORE THAN 70 CLIMATE AND GREEN ENERGY INITIATIVES.

WHAT DOES THE APPOINTMENT OF LEE ZELDIN TO RUN YOUR OLD AGENCY, THE EPA, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR ACTUALLY AND SCIENTIFICALLY FOR THE CAUSE OF TRYING TO MAKE AMERICA CLEANER?

>> WELL, LEE ZELDIN AT LEAST HAS SOME EXPERIENCE IN THESE ISSUES WHEN HE WAS IN NEW YORK AND CONGRESS THERE.

SO MY HOPE IS THAT HE'LL DO HIS BEST TO MITIGATE THE CHALLENGES THAT WE FACE ON CLIMATE AND ENERGY.

OUR ENERGY CRISIS.

BUT I ALSO HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT HE'S BEHOLDEN TO PRESIDENT TRUMP.

AND AS YOU INDICATED, YOU KNOW, PRESIDENT TRUMP IS ONLY INTERESTED IN ADVANCING FOSSIL FUELS.

AND ONE OF THE INTERESTING PARTS ABOUT THAT IS THAT THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY IS ACTUALLY DOING VERY WELL.

THEY'RE AFRAID THAT HIS PUSH FOR MORE FOSSIL FUELS IS ACTUALLY GOING TO DIMINISH THEIR RETURN BECAUSE THERE WILL BE TOO MUCH OF IT OUT THERE.

SO HONESTLY, HE IS MAKING THINGS UP AS HE GOES ALONG.

AND CLEARLY, HE'S BEHOLDEN TO THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY.

IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ISN'T THE ONLY ACTOR HERE.

SO IF YOU REMEMBER, THE LAST TIME THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, AMERICA IS ALL IN.

THAT WAS FUNDED BY BLOOMBERG.

STEPPED UP AND STARTED MOVING FORWARD AT THE LOCAL AND STATE LEVEL.

WHICH IN THE UNITED STATES HAS SIGNIFICANT AUTHORITY SO WE CAN KEEP MOVING FORWARD IN THE ABSENCE OF FEDERAL LEADERSHIP.

THAT'S HAPPENING AGAIN.

BLOOMBERG IS ALREADY GOING TO COVER ALL THE SPENDS THAT ARE NECESSARY FOR INTERNATIONAL PARTICIPATION OF THE UNITED STATES.

WE ARE GOING TO KEEP MOVING FORWARD TOGETHER.

>> YES.

AND BLOOMBERG ALSO IS A BUSINESS PERSON AND KNOWS THE VALUE, I GUESS, OF GREEN TECHNOLOGY AND JOBS AND THINGS THAT IT PROMOTES.

SO LET ME ASK YOU THIS THEN.

IS THERE A POSSIBILITY WITH THESE POLICIES OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION THAT, FOR INSTANCE, CHINA COULD OVERTAKE THE U.S.?

WHETHER IT IS ON EVs, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE.

HE ALSO SAID THAT HE'S SCRAPPING THE TARGETS FOR ELECTRIC VEHICLES IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND HIS MAIN GOAL, EM, IS TO BOOST THE ECONOMY OF THE U.S. HOW WILL THESE POLICIES HELP THAT?

>> ACTUALLY, THEY WILL DO JUST THE OPPOSITE.

LOOK.

CLEAN ENERGY IS THE CLEAR WINNER IN THE UNITED STATES.

IT'S CHEAPER.

IT'S BETTER FOR FAMILIES.

IT'S CLEANING UP OUR AIR POLLUTION.

IT'S MAINTAINING HEALTH IN A WAY THAT WE'VE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO MAINTAIN IT BEFORE.

SO WE CLEARLY HAVE A BIG MISUNDERSTANDING AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL ABOUT WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO GROW OUR ECONOMY AND TO MOVE FORWARD.

AND THAT IS ALL ABOUT ADVANCING CLEAN ENERGY.

AND SO IF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AGAIN DOESN'T WANT TO LOOK AT THE REALITY OF THE WORLD TODAY, AND WHAT ARE THE WINNERS AND WHAT ARE THE LOSERS, THEN WE STILL HAVE AN ABILITY IN THE UNITED STATES TO ACT.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ORGANIZING NOW.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 5,000 LEADERS ACROSS THE UNITED STATES WHO ARE PLEDGING TO STAND UP AGAINST THIS PRESIDENT AND HIS, BASICALLY, ENAMORED ABILITY TO GRAB FOSSIL FUELS, AS IF THAT WERE OUR SAVIOR.

THE SAVIOR OF THE UNITED STATES IS THE SAME AS THE SAVIOR FOR EVERY COUNTRY.

TO DO WHAT'S RIGHT FOR ITS PEOPLE.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO WITH BLOOMBERG.

WE'LL SPEND MONEY.

WE'LL ORGANIZE AND WE'LL KEEP MOVING FORWARD NO MATTER WHAT.

NO MATTER WHAT THEY WANT TO THROW AT IT.

>> A SCIENTIFIC STUDY BY WORLD WEATHER, AND IT IS GLOBALLY RECOGNIZED FOR LINKING WEATHER TO CLIMATE CHANGE, FOUND CLIMATE CHANGE FUELED BY FOSSIL FUEL BURNING MADE THE RECENT L.A.

FIRES 35 MORE LIKELY.

THAT'S A HUGE NUMBER.

THE REASON I'M SAYING THAT IS BECAUSE IT APPEARS THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, AT LEAST A GOOD CHUNK OF THEM HAVEN'T BOUGHT THIS STORY.

THEY HAVE OTHER CONCERNS.

THEY THINK IT IS CHANGE GO THEIR LIFE STYLES.

THEY THINK IT IS MAKING THING TOO EXPENSIVE.

EARLIER THIS WEAK WE SPOKE TO A CONSERVATIVE.

HE THINKS THE WAY CLIMATE IS DISCUSSED IS ALL WRONG.

TAKE A LISTEN.

>> THE TALK AROUND CLIMATE HAS BEEN SUPER ELITIST AND OUT OF TOUCH WITH THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS.

THERE IS A REASON WHY ONLY 30 SOMETHING PERCENT IDENTIFY AS ENVIRONMENTALISTS.

THE CONVERSATION IS VERY TOP DOWN.

IT IS SAYING YOU PEOPLE ARE BAD.

YOU'RE THE PROBLEM.

YOU NEED TO CHANGE YOUR LIVELIHOOD.

WE NEED TO CHANGE THE ENERGY SOURCES AND I DON'T THINK PRESIDENT BIDEN REALLY HELPED.

HE DIDN'T WORK ACROSS THE AISLE.

I'M NOT SAYING PRESIDENT TRUMP IS DOING THAT EITHER.

IT IS NEITHER SIDE HAS BEEN INCENTIVIZED TO DO THAT.

I DON'T THINK THE CLIMATE COMMUNITY HAS VOICES THAT REALLY RESONATE WITH THE OTHER SIDE.

IT IS JUST PEOPLE IN COASTAL AMERICA TALKING DOWN TO RURAL AMERICA.

WE HAVE TO BRIDGE THAT CHASM.

I THINK IT CAN HAPPEN.

>> I KNOW YOU'RE LISTENING.

I'M SURE YOU DON'T AGREE WITH EVERYTHING.

THE FACT IS THE NARRATIVE IS NOT FULLY OUT THERE.

AMERICA USED TO BE BIPARTISAN BELIEF IN THE NEED FOR IT YEARS AGO AND IT JUST ISN'T ANYMORE.

>> I DON'T KNOW.

IF YOU LOOK AT WHERE THE MONEY IS BEING SPENT ON CLEAN ENERGY, IT IS ACROSS DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN DISTRICTS THAT THERE'S NO QUESTION PEOPLE ARE BEGINNING TO SEE THE VALUE OF CLEAN ENERGY.

I THINK THERE ARE MANY CHALLENGES IN OUR COUNTRY NOW.

NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH IS THE MISINFORMATION BEING TOSSED OUT THERE.

AND IT IS BEING TOSSED OUT AT THE BEHEST OF THIS PRESIDENT AND THE BEHEST OF THE TECH AND THE FOSSIL FUEL ENERGY.

SO IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US, AND THEY'RE RIGHT, TO WORK AT THE COMMUNITY LEVEL, FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOOD AND BAD AND VALUABLE TO THEM.

THAT'S WHAT GOVERNING IS ALL ABOUT BUT THAT'S NOT THE INTEREST OF THIS ADMINISTRATION.

THE INTEREST OF THIS ADMINISTRATION IS THE PUT PEOPLE AGAINST BUT NOT ANOTHER.

THE IMPORTANT THING WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE, WE ARE ALL IN THIS SAME BOAT.

WHETHER IT IS IN THE UNITED STATES OR INTERNATIONALLY.

WE HAVE TO REBECAUSE THE TO BE SORT OF PITTED AGAINST ONE ANOTHER AND BEGIN TO WORK TOGETHER FOR THE THINGS THAT ARE MOST IMPORTANT FOR HUMAN BEINGS IN OUR LIVES AND OUR LIVELIHOOD.

SO I DON'T DISAGREE THAT WE HAVE WORK TO DO BUT LET'S NOT DIMINISH THE FACT THAT THIS PRESIDENT HAS DONE EVERYTHING HUMANS POSSIBLE TO DIMINISH PEOPLE'S ABILITY TO FEEL GOOD ABOUT THEMSELVES, THE WORK THEY HAVE.

HE'S DONE NOTHING BUT TRY TO DIVIDE AND CONQUER.

>> THANK YOU FOR THAT.

AND WE WILL CHECK IN WITH YOU.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>> AS WE MENTIONED, TALKING ABOUT MISINFORMATION, RFK JR. IS FACING MORE QUESTIONS FROM SENATORS TODAY.

HE'S TRYING TO BECOME THE NEXT U.S. HEALTH SECRETARY.

HE LOOKS LIKE HE'S ON TRACK.

THOUGH HE IS FACING INTENSE CRITICISM FOR HIS STATEMENTS ON VACCINES, FUELED, AS IN, BY CONSPIRACY THEORIES.

THAT'S NO LONGER FRINGE.

HE HAS A CONSIDERABLE NUMBER OF FOLLOWERS IN THE UNITED STATES.

TAKE A LISTEN TO THIS FIERY EXCHANGE YESTERDAY.

>> I SUPPORT THE MEASLES VACCINE.

I SUPPORT THE POLIO VACCINE.

I WILL DO NOTHING AS HHS SECRETARY THAT MAKES IT DIFFICULT OR DISCOURAGES PEOPLE -- >> ANYBODY WHO BELIEVES THAT OUGHT TO LOOK AT THE MEASLES BOOK YOU WROTE SAYING PARENTS HAVE BEEN MISLED INTO BELIEVING THAT MEASLES IS A DEADLY DISEASE.

THAT'S NOT TRUE.

>> AND THESE TIMES OF PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUES ARE AT THE HEART OF A NEW HIT BROADWAY PLAY.

"EUREKA DAY" EXPLORES THE TENSION AND THE HUMOR OF A SCHOOL IN CALIFORNIA GRAPPLING WITH A MUMPS OUTBREAK.

I'M JOINED BY JESSICA HECHT AND BILL IRWIN.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

NICE TO SEE YOU.

LET ME ASK YOU, JESSICA, I'VE SEEN THE PLAY.

COULD YOU EVER IMAGINE THAT IT WOULD BE IN FULL FLOURISH, THIS PLAY, AS THIS REAL-LIFE DRAMA IS GOING ON IN THE HALLS OF POWER?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

WE JUST FELT, OF COURSE, WE FEEL THAT SOMEBODY OUT THERE IS LOOKING OUT FOR US.

BUT WE HAD NO THOUGHT WE WOULD COLLIDE WITH SUCH A DANGEROUS MOMENT IN HISTORY.

>> AND WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO HOW IT IS LANDING RIGHT NOW?

>> OUR CONCERN IN THE HAD HE RERSAL ROOM AND LEADING UP TO REHEARSAL WAS THAT HISTORY MIGHT HAVE PASSED THIS PLAY BY.

THAT WE WERE MAYBE WORKING ON SOMETHING SLIGHTLY BEHIND THE CURVE, ONLY TO FIND THAT AS YOU SAY, WE'RE DEALING WITH A REALLY, REALLY CURRENT CONVERSATION EVERY NIGHT ON BROADWAY.

>> AND WHEN YOU -- SO TALK TO ME A LITTLE ABOUT IT.

I GAVE A LITTLE OF THE SORT OF SHAPE OF THE PLAY.

JESSICA, YOU TELL ME ABOUT YOUR CHARACTER.

IT'S A VERY HOLIER THAN THOU, SELF-DEAD, YOU KNOW, DEI, KIND OF, LET EVERYBODY HAVE THEIR SAY, ET CETERA.

>> I THINK AT THE HEART OF WHAT IS GOING ON WITH HER, SHE'S SOMEBODY WHO HAS CRAFTED ALL OF THESE AGENDAS WHICH ARE SUPPOSEDLY FOR EVERYONE'S BENEFIT BECAUSE SHE HAD A TERRIBLE MOMENT IN HER OWN LIFE THAT SHE HAD NO CONTROL OVER.

AND I THINK, ALL OF THESE CHARACTERS, ALL OF THESE PEOPLE THAT WE'RE ENGAGING WITH, WE SEE ONLY THEIR BEHAVIOR AND THEIR SUPPOSED PERSONAL AGENDAS.

AT THE CORE OF THAT, UNFORTUNATELY, THERE IS OFTEN FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, TRAUMA.

BUT MY CHARACTER IS VERY, VERY HAPPY TO HAVE ANY POWER, AND SHE MISUSES IT, PERHAPS.

BUT I THINK SHE'S MOTIVATED BY, DEFINITELY BY SOMETHING REALLY, REALLY PERSONAL AND REALLY PAINFUL.

SO I MEAN, THE PLAY HOPEFULLY OPENS YOUR MIND TO THAT REALITY THAT PEOPLE ARE NARCISSISTIC IN THE WORST AND THE BEST WAYS FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD TO USE.

>> THE WORST AND THE BEST WAYS.

THAT'S GOOD.

NARCISSISM.

BILL IRVIN -- BEST WAYS?

YEAH.

TELL ME, TELL ME ABOUT THE FACT THAT THIS PLAY WAS IN FACT WRITTEN, YOU KNOW, BEFORE COVID, BEFORE THE HEIGHT OF THIS AT LEAST PUBLIC DEMONSTRATION OF CONSPIRACY THEORIES OVER THE DISEASES, VACCINES, ET CETERA.

I THINK IT WAS WRITTEN BACK IN 2016 BY GIONTA SPECTER.

>> YEAH, YEAH.

>> YEAH.

AND IT REVEALS ITSELF TO BE A VERY SHREWD BIT OF PLAYWRITING.

WE'VE HIT THE CURVE OF HISTORY SO THAT SINCE THE PLAY WAS WRITTEN, THE PANDEMIC GRIPPED THE WORLD.

THE SOCIAL JUSTICE RECKONING MOMENT WHEN GEORGE FLOYD WAS KILLED.

AND ELECTION RESULTS, THINGS THAT LIKE I SAID EARLIER, WE WERE A LITTLE FEARFUL WE MIGHT FIND BEHIND THE CURVE OF HISTORY.

IT IS A VERY CURRENT CONVERSATION.

AND THE PLAY WAS ALSO WRITTEN, BY THE WAY, BEFORE THE ZOOM ERA.

BEFORE OUR LIVES WERE ABOUT DISTANCE COMMUNICATION.

AND THERE'S ONE SCENE IN THE PLAY THAT TAKES THAT ON.

IT IS A DELIGHT TO PLAY IT.

>> I AM GOING TO PLAY IT NOW.

I HOPE I WILL GET -- I'LL PLAY PART OF IT.

IT IS REALLY, REALLY FUNNY.

ESSENTIALLY, YOU'RE GATHERED FOR A VIRTUAL TOWN HALL.

YOU, BILL IRWIN, PLAY HEAD OF SCHOOL.

AND YOU, JESSICA, PLAY A TEACHER ON THE BOARD OF THE SCHOOL.

AND YOU'RE GATHERED TO SPEAK TO PARENTS.

AND AS YOU SAID, BEFORE THE ZOOM ERA, WHICH I DIDN'T REALIZE, HERE'S WHAT WE SEE.

>> NOW THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT HAS RECOMMENDED THAT YOU GET THE MUMPS VACCINE, IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY.

BUT JUST TO BE CLEAR -- YOU NEEDED TO HAVE HAD IT PRIOR TO SEPTEMBER 14th TO BE INCLUDED IN THE CATEGORY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT AFFECTED BY THE QUARANTINE.

>> I THINK IT IS WORTH AMPLIFYING THAT POINT.

>> I'M SORRY.

WHICH POINT?

>> HONESTLY, IT STILL MAKES ME LAUGH.

I HOPE OUR VIEWERS CAN UNDERSTAND THAT ESSENTIALLY, IT IS THE SCREEN AND THE COMMENTS OUTSIDE THE ROOM THAT ARE PROVOKING THE HILARITY.

IT'S JUST REALLY VERY FUNNY.

AND YOU GUYS, WHO ARE IN THE ROOM ARE JUST BLATHERING ON, SORT OF EARNESTLY.

>> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT BLATHER.

>> I THINK THE DIRECTOR, OR THE SCRIPT WRITER THAT TO YOU ALL, DON'T WAIT FOR THE LAUGHTER TO SUBSIDE.

YOU HAVE TO KEEP GOING.

TELL ME HOW DIFFICULT THAT WAS.

>> IT RUNS AGAINST YOUR CRAFT AS AN ACTOR OFTEN.

WHAT WE FOUND IS THAT IT GETS TO THE DEEP COMEDY OF PEOPLE TAKING THEMSELVES VERY SERIOUSLY AND SPEAKING IN A WAY, THE ASSUMPTION IS THAT PEOPLE ARE WATCHING THEM LIKE WE USED TO WATCH TELEVISION IN THE 1950s.

WE DIDN'T LOOK TO THE SIDE.

PEOPLE NOW ARE WATCHING WHILE CHATTING ABOUT WHAT THE GUY'S HAIR LOOKS LIKE.

AND IT IS A CONVERSATION FOR OUR MOMENT.

IT IS A VERY FUNNY SCENE.

I'M SO GLAD YOU SAW IT, MISS AMANPOUR.

>> CHRISTIANE IS FINE, BY THE WAY.

>> IT PLAYS INTO THE REALITY THAT WE ARE CONSTANTLY DEALING WITH.

IF YOU ARE NOT IN THE ROOM WITH SOMEONE, YOU FEEL THIS TREMENDOUS FREEDOM TO SAY WHATEVER YOU FEEL TO SAY.

AND SO, OF COURSE, THE PLAY TAKES US TO WHERE WE ARE SAYING WHATEVER WE WANT TO SAY, WHETHER WE'RE IN THE ROOM OR NOT.

ACTUALLY -- >> THE LID COME OFF THE HUMAN ID IN A REALLY FASCINATING WAY.

>> BEAUTIFULLY THAT.

>> IT IS SO GOOD TO HEAR YOU AGREE.

IT WAS A LITTLE DIFFERENT IN THE PLAY.

>> SHE SORT OF AGREES WITH HIM.

>> I LAUGHED BECAUSE THE NEW YORK MAGAZINE WITH THE PRAISE OF THE PLAY CALLS IT ESSENTIALLY, YOUR TERRIFIED DANCE OF THE WELL-INTENTIONED.

BILL IRWIN AS HEAD OF SCHOOL.

AT THE HEART OF THE CONFLICT OVER THE VACCINE AND MUMPS, YOUR CHARACTER WRITES ON THE WHITE BOARD DURING THE BRAIN-STORMING SESSION.

ALL POV EQUALS VALID.

LOVELY BUT HARDLY PRACTICAL.

AND AGAIN, IT IS TARGETING THE IDEA OF WOKE DIALOGUE.

WOKE HAS SUDDENLY BECOME A MAJOR POLITICAL ISSUE.

AND I WANT TO LISTEN, PLAY A SCENE FROM THE PLAY WHICH YOU, OF COURSE, KNOW.

CHARACTERS DEBATING WHETHER TO INCLUDE THE TERM "TRANS RACIAL ADOPTEE."

>> I CAN SAY AS A BLACK -- >> SORRY TO CUT YOU OFF.

I WONDER IF THERE IS A BETTER FRAME FOR THIS CONVERSATION WHICH IS, WHO IS THE DROPDOWN MENU FOR?

>> FOR FAMILIES APPLYING TO OUR SCHOOL.

>> NO, NO.

>> SO MAYBE A WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT, ELY IS, IF YOU ARE PULLED OVER BY THE POLICE, THEY DON'T -- >> OBVIOUSLY -- >> THEY DON'T ASK IF YOU WERE ADOPTED.

>> I MEAN, IT IS FUNNY.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE BACKLASH THAT WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW TO THIS WHOLE SORT OF LANGUAGE?

>> YEAH, THERE IS SUCH A WORRY THAT WE HAD AS A CAST THAT WE WOULD BE CONSIDERED JUST A SATIRE OF WOKE VALUES AND BEHAVIOR.

AND IT CERTAINLY, THE KIND OF SIMPLISTIC REFLECTIONS ON HOW, YOU KNOW, IF THESE CONVERSATIONS THAT THESE CHARACTERS ARE HAVING ARE TAKEN WITHOUT THE DEPTH OF WHAT THEY ARE ACTUALLY TRYING TAD, MAKE THE WORLD A PACE WHERE EVERYBODY CAN CO-EXIST, IT SEEMS INCREDIBLY TRITE AND SUPERFICIAL.

SO THE PLAY REALLY GETS INTO THE HEART OF WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH RIGHT NOW, THAT EVERYTHING CAN SEEM TO BE VERY, SORT OF LIMITED.

AND AS I SAID BEFORE, NARCISSISTIC IN THE WORST OF WAYS AND SORT OF PLAYING UPON A VERY FLIMSY IDEA FOR HOW THE WORLD SHOULD OPERATE.

I HOPE FOR MOST PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN BERKELEY, THAT WE'RE ABSOLUTELY REAL.

I DON'T KNOW.

AND I HOPE IN GENERAL FOR PEOPLE NOT LIVING IN BERKELEY, BUT PEOPLE JUST TRYING TO ENGAGE IN, YOU KNOW, SORT OF EXPANSIVE HOPE FOR THE WORLD, FIND US PRETTY HONEST.

>> I HOPE SO.

THE PLAY IS A VERY SAVVY BIT OF PLAYWRITING.

IT IS A VERY DECISIVE CHARACTER.

IF IT WAS ONLY TOPICAL JOKES, IT WOULD LAST FIVE MINUTES.

THE 95-MINUTE PLAY EVERY NIGHT TAKES EACH OF THESE CHARACTERS THROUGH THE ART.

EACH OF US GROWS UP.

>> BILL, YOU KNOW, I SAW YOU PLAYING AROUND WITH YOUR EAR PIECE.

IT REMINDED ME THAT YOU WERE ALSO A CLOWN AND PROBABLY DID MIME IN YOUR CAREER.

HOW DID IT HELP YOU IN THIS REGARD?

AND PARTICULARLY, PARTICULARLY, YOU SAID NAVY 95 MINUTES.

IT IS A PLAY THAT NEEDS TO BE SEEN WITHOUT AN INTERMISSION.

>> I THINK SO.

IT IS A, IT WOULDN'T BROOK ANY WONDERING.

>> AND JESSICA, JUST TO TAKE A HARD LEFT OR RIGHT OR WHEREVER WE WANT TO GO, YOU'VE ALSO DONE A LOT OF TV WORK AND YOU TALK, AT LEFT A I READ A LOT, ABOUT YOU BEING IN "FRIENDS" FOR A GOOD PERIOD OF TIME.

I DON'T KNOW.

THAT WAS SUCH A RESONANCE SITCOM THAT LASTS THROUGH THE AGES.

WHAT DID YOU TAKE AWAY FROM THAT?

>> EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO SCRUTINY.

ALTHOUGH "FRIENDS," IN THE MOMENT I DID IT, AT THE HATE OF SOPHISTICATION AND REPRESENTATION, NOW IS CONSIDERED PERHAPS FALLING A BIT SHORT IN SOME RESPECTS.

SO I THINK THAT THE REFLECTION ON HOW WE'RE SEEING PEOPLE AND THE KIND OF NATURALISM WE WANT FROM REPRESENTATIONS ON TELEVISION IS CONSTANTLY EVOLVING.

AND IT WAS VERY, YOU KNOW, I THINK AT THE BOTTOM, THE BOTTOM LINE ABOUT THAT SHOW IS IT HAS MADE A LOT OF PEOPLE EXPERIENCE JOY, OR SOME SORT OF, YOU KNOW, KIND OF, THEY'RE ABLE TO ESCAPE THEIR OWN LIVES FOR A MOMENT.

FOR WHATEVER THAT'S WORTH, I THINK IT IS WORTH A LOT.

>> I THINK THAT'S A GREAT PLACE TO END.

YOU FOCUS ON WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE WORLD.

IN A WAY, THIS PLAY IS HUMOROUS AND IT ALLOWS US TO ESCAPE A LITTLE BIT WHILE ALSO PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION.

ANYWAY, JESSICA HECHT, BILL IRVIN, "EUREKA DAY."

>>> THE BATTLE FOR SUPREMACY IN THE FIELD OF AI IS WELL AND TRULY ON.

THE RECENT BOMBSHELL ABOUT CHINA'S BREAKTHROUGH TECHNOLOGY DEEPSEEK HAD AN IMMEDIATE AND NEGATIVE EFFECT ON AMERICA'S TECH WORLD.

DEEPSEEK IS REPORTEDLY CHEAPER AND FASTER THAN CURRENT U.S. TECHNOLOGY.

TRUMP CALLED IT A WAKE-UP CALL.

FORMER TOP CYBER SECURITY OFFICIAL ANNE NEUBERGER JOINS THE SHOW TO DISCUSS IT.

>> THANK YOU.

WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU, WALTER.

IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE WITH YOU.

>> THE BIG NEWS THIS WEEK IS THE CHINESE COMPANY'S RELEASE OF SOMETHING CALLED DEEPSEEK.

AN AI SYSTEM THAT IS LIKE GROK AI OR CHATGPT BUT MUCH, MUCH MORE EFFICIENT.

IT USES LESS ELECTRICITY.

ABLE TO GET AROUND THE RESTRICTIONS WE PUT ON MICROCHIPS AND MICRO PROCESSORS.

I JUST DOWNLOADED IT ON MAY PHONE.

ONE OF THE THING IT THAT, THE PERSONAL INFORMATION WE COLLECT FROM YOU MAY BE STORED ON A SERVER LOCATED OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY YOU LIVE.

WHAT DOES THAT MAY NOT FOR CHINESE ESPIONAGE AND INTELLIGENCE GATHERING?

>> DEEPSEEK DID HIGHLIGHT THAT.

IT'S NOT MUST THE TO BE BETTER IN AI.

IT MATTERS THE COST.

THE EFFICIENCY.

AI WILL BE A GAME-CHANGER FOR INTELLIGENCE BECAUSE IT ALLOWS FOR MORE, FASTER, AND BETTER INTELLIGENCE.

I'LL GIVE YOU THREE PRACTICAL EXAMPLES.

ONE IN THE AREA OF MISSILE DEFENSE.

A SECOND IN THE AREA OF COUNTERTERRORISM.

AND A THIRD THAT GOES EXACTLY TO THE QUESTION YOU RAISED WITH REGARD TO GATHERING PERSONAL INFORMATION AND MAKING SENSE OF THAT FOR AN INTELLIGENCE AGENCY.

SO IN THE AREA OF MISSILE DEFENSE.

MISSILE LAUNCHERS ARE OFTEN MOBILE.

IT MAKES IT HARD TO RAPIDLY DETECT THE POTENTIAL FOR A MISSILE LAUNCH IN TIME TO WARN MISSILE DEFENSE SYSTEMS.

AI COULD BE A GAME-CHANGER IN ALLOWING FOR BRINGING TOGETHER IMAGES, FOR EXAMPLE, THOSE CAPTURED BY SATELLITES, OF KNOWN OR SUSPECTED MISSILE LAUNCH SITES, ALONG WITH SIGNALS OF PEOPLE WHO WORK IN THOSE PROGRAM TO RAPIDLY DETECT THE POTENTIAL FOR LAUNCH.

SIMILARLY IN THE AREA OF LANGUAGE, AI IS TRAINED ON MULTIPLE LANGUAGES, COULD KNOW THE NUANCE BETWEEN DIALECTS AND DETERMINE WHICH ARE CODED WORDS OR CULTURAL WORDS TO HELP IDENTIFY PLOTS.

AND THEN FINALLY, IN THE AREA IN THE QUESTION YOU ASKED, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT A GOVERNMENT LIKE CHINA, COLLECTS VAST AMOUNT OF DATA SETS, WHETHER IT IS OFF MODELS ON YOUR PHONE OR OFF THE MILLIONS OF CAMERAS DEPLOYED IN CHINA AND AROUND THE WORLD, CHINA CAN MAKE SENSE OF THAT IN ONE OR TWO DRIVE SURVEILLANCE.

IF THEY'RE INTERESTED IN A PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL.

THEY'RE INTERESTED BECAUSE OF THEIR ROLE, THE KNOWLEDGE THEY PLAY, OR BECAUSE OF KEY DATA SETS LIKE RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT INDUSTRIES, ARE INTERESTED TO TRAIN MODELS FOR THEIR OWN ADVANCEMENTS.

>> THE VENTURE CAPITALIST WHO BACKED A LOT OF THESE COMPANIES AND WAS ONE OF THE FOUNDERS OF NET SPACE SAID THIS IS A PUT , OF SPUTNIK THAT WENT UP IN 1957.

IS THIS A WAKE-UP CALL FOR ALL OF US?

>> IT IS INDEED.

A WAKE-UP CALL FOR AMERICA THAT AI IS A RACE WE CAN LOSE.

WE HAVE THE INNOVATION ENGINE TODAY.

WE HAVE THE EDGE.

IT IS NOT ENOUGH TO PRODUCE THE BEST AI TECHNOLOGY.

THE KEY IS TO PRODUCE THE MOST EFFICIENT.

THE CHEEPEST TO DEPLOY IN FIELDS FROM DRUG DISCOVERY.

>> BIDEN HAD AN EXECUTIVE ORDER ON AI AND THEN SOME GUARDRAILS AROUND AI.

MORE THAN 100 PAGES THAT EXPLAINED WHAT COULD BE DONE AND NOT DONE.

WHAT INTELLIGENCE COULD BE GATHERED.

DID THAT SLOW THE U.S. DOWN AND GIVE CHINA THE ADVANTAGE TO LEAP AHEAD THIS WAY?

>> YOU KNOW, A POINT WITH A GREAT DEAL OF IN NUANCE.

IT LIKESLY FORCED THE CHINESE TO INNOVATE LIKE THEY DID WITH DEEPSEEK.

INDEED, THE CEO OF DEEPSEEK NOTED THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION'S PEER CONTROLS WAS A CHALLENGE FOR THEM.

AS A RESULT, THEY INNOVATED.

THEY INTEGRATED ACROSS THE ALGORITHMS WITH WAYS TO MORE EFFICIENTLY RUN THIS MODEL.

>> DOESN'T THAT MEAN IT WAS A BAD IDEA FOR US TO DO THAT?

NOW THEY'VE INNOVATED AND BECOME MUCH MORE EFFICIENT.

>> IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

IT IS NOT THE END-ALL, BE-ALL.

CERTAINLY THE CONTROLS SLOWED DOWN THE CHINESE.

BUT THEY HAD TO INOVER 58th AND COME UP WITH WAYS.

THIS IS A CALL TO ACTION FOR OUR AI COMPANY TO DO THE SAME INNOVATION.

SO IN ADDITION TO COMPUTE DATA, IT MATTERS A GREAT DEAL AND LETTING A THOUSAND FLOWERS BLOOM IN TERMS OF DIFFERENT WAYS ON AI.

WHEN I TALK ABOUT HIGH-VALUE DATE, A THERE ARE SOME WHO BELIEVE THAT DEEPSEEK MAY HAVE GENERATED HIGH-VALUE DATA TO TRAIN THEIR MODEL USING U.S. AI MODELS AND THAT MATTERS A GREAT DEAL.

AS WE THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE, THINKING ABOUT PROTECTING HIGH-VALUE DATA SETS AND BUILDING THAT INTO THE U.S.

APPROACHES ON AI WILL BE IMPORTANT.

>> THE CHINESE HAVE DONE IT WITH AN OPEN SOURCE MODEL.

DID THAT GIVE THEM AN ADVANTAGE?

>> IT CERTAINLY GIVES AN ADVANTAGE BECAUSE OPEN SOURCE, THE MODEL WEIGHTS ARE OPEN.

BY HAVING CHEAPER MODELS AVAILABLE, MORE OF AN ECOSYSTEM CAN BE BUILT ON IT.

SO THINK ABOUT META'S LLAMA, ALSO AN OPEN SOURCE MODEL.

WHY THAT MATTERS IS THE DEVELOPERS, WHETHER THEY USE IT TO DEVELOP CUSTOMIZED WAYS FOR KIDS TO LEARN.

WHETHER THEY'RE USING TO IT TRAIN MODELS ON PARTICULARLY DIFFERENT KINDS OF LANGUAGES OR SENSITIVE DATA SETS.

SO OPEN SOURCE, BECAUSE IT IS CHEAPER, DOES ALLOW MORE USERS TO BUILD ON IT.

THAT'S A GOOD THING.

A LOT OF POSITIVE APPLICATIONS.

IT'S ALSO A CONCERN BECAUSE THESE POWERFUL AI CAPABILITIES COULD BE IN THE HANDS OF POTENTIALLY MALICIOUS USERS.

YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE TOUGHEST ISSUES I DEALT WITH WHEN I WAS AT THE WHITE HOUSE WERE CYBER CRIMINALS DEVELOPING LOCKING UP AMERICAN HOSPITALS.

DEVELOPING CYBER CAPABILITIES TO LOCK UP THE HOSPITALS FOR RANSOMS.

CERTAINLY, AI CAN MAKE IT EASIER TO BUILD LONGER-LASTING AND MORE FOCUSED OFFENSIVE CYBER CAPABILITIES BY A RANGE OF USERS.

>> WHEN WE TALK ABOUT OPEN SOURCE, WE MEAN THE SOURCE CODE IS PUBLIC.

PEOPLE CAN CHANGE IT AND BUILD UPON IT AS OPPOSED TO, LET'S SAY, OPEN AI WHICH WAS SUPPOSED TO BE OPEN SOURCE BUT NOW IS CLOSED WITH ITS CHATGPT.

IS THERE SOMETHING THE U.S. SHOULD TRY TO DO IN REGULATING OPEN AND CLOSE?

OR IS THAT SOMETHING THAT CAN'T BE REGULATED?

>> YOU KNOW, WALTER, THE WAY WE WIN IS ON HAVING THE BEST TECH.

AS WE'VE SEEN THE LESSONS LEARNED FROM DEEPSEEK, THE CHEAPEST TECH.

BY REGULATING THAT, IT BECOMES A WHACK-A-MOLE.

YOU REGULATE THIS AND SOMETHING ELSE POPS UP.

GENERALLY OUR APPROACH SHOULD BE TO LEARN FROM THIS.

TO FIGURE OUT, HOW DO WE BEST INNOVATE AND TO SEE IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO BUILD POTENTIALLY THE BEST AI TECH.

IT REALLY DOES MATTER WHAT IT CAUSES FOR USERS TO USE IT AND THE COMPUTE MODEL TO RUN IT.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT REALLY CROPS UP IS FACIAL RECOGNITION.

IF I WALK AROUND HERE IN NEW ORLEANS, ALL SORTS OF CAMERAS, DOOR BELL CAMERAS AND CAMERAS ON THE STREETS.

AND IT WOULDN'T USUALLY MATTER.

IN CHINA NOW, THEY CAN RECOGNIZE INDIVIDUALS AND USE THAT FACIAL RECOGNITION AS PART OF THEIR ESPIONAGE ON THEIR OWN CITIZENS.

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT COULD BE AND SHOULD BE DONE IN THE UNITED STATES?

>> SO FIRST, YOUR POINT IS WELL TAKEN THAT CHINA USES THEIR MILLIONS OF CAMERAS DEPLOYED IN CHINA AND FRANKLY AROUND THE WORLD TO TRAIN VERY SOPHISTICATED FACIAL RECOGNITION MODELS.

AND THAT'S A REAL CONCERN, AS YOU ASKED ME EARLIER, REGARDING THE RACE BETWEEN INTELLIGENCE OF AUTHORITARIAN AND DEMOCRATIC COUNTRIES.

CHINA'S ABILITY TO DO THAT WILL MAKE U.S. INTELLIGENCE OPERATIONS HARDER.

IT PUTS U.S. MILITARY OFFICERS AND OTHERS AT GREATER RISK.

IN THE UNITED STATES, THE CHALLENGE FOR US IS DEPLOYING ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE IN A WAY THAT IS IN LINE WITH THE VALUES AND LAWS OF A DEMOCRACY.

YOU KNOW, I SAW THIS FIRSTHAND.

I LED THE NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY.

I SERVED AS THE FIRST SECURITY OFFICER AND I SAW THE LOST OF TRUST BY CITIZENS IN OUR DEMOCRACY IN INTELLIGENCE SERVICES.

OUR CITIZENS, OUR ALLIES, AND THE DIVISIVENESS BETWEEN GOVERNMENT AND THE TECH SECTOR THAT DEVELOPED AFTER THAT.

THAT MUST BE AVOIDED FOR THE U.S.

IN TERMS OF HOW THE U.S. GOVERNMENT USES AI IN SENSITIVE NATIONAL SECURITY APPLICATIONS.

AND IT CAN BE AVOIDED.

>> HOW DO WE OVERCOME THAT?

OR SHOULD WE?

SHOULD WE BE A LITTLE RESISTANT IN OVERCOMING THAT LACK OF TRUST?

>> WE OVERCOME IT THROUGH TRANSPARENCY, THROUGH TALKING ABOUT HOW AI IS BEING USED IN SENSITIVE NATIONAL SECURITY APPLICATIONS, AND IN TALKING ABOUT HOW THE LAWS AND VALUES OF THE COUNTRY ARE BEING IMPLEMENTED.

THE CHALLENGE IS, TECHNOLOGY MOVES FAR FASTER.

WE NEED TO ENSURE THAT AS THE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE, AS THE MILITARY IS DEPLOYING AI, THEY ARE EXPLICIT WITH TRANSPARENCY ABOUT HOW THEY ARE DOING SO.

HOW THEY KEEP A HUMAN IN THE LOOP FOR CERTAIN KINDS OF DECISIONS.

WHERE THE PROTECTIONS OF AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES OF PRIVACY AND OTHERS ARE BAKED IN WHEN DATA SETS ARE CREATED.

ALL OF THAT IS KEY TO HOW AI IS DEPLOYED FOR SENSITIVE NATIONAL SECURITY APPLICATIONS.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT ALL THE RESTRAINTS AND THE CIVIL LIBERTY CONSTRAINTS THAT NEED TO BE IN A DEMOCRACY, TRANSPARENT AND PUT ON IT.

TO THE WHAT EXTENT DOES THAT HANDICAP US IN COMPETING AGAINST CHINA WHICH DOES NOT HAVE THOSE RESTRAINTS?

>> IT CERTAINLY MAKES IT HARDER AND POTENTIALLY MAKES US SLOWER IN DEPLOYING AI APPLICATIONS FOR SENSITIVE USES.

I WOULD ARGUE WHO WE ARE AS A DEMOCRACY, OUR CITIZENS' CONFIDENCE THAT THEIR CIVIL LIBERTIES AND PRIVACY ARE PROTECTED, IS AN IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION IN DEPLOYING ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

AND WE CAN BOTH USE AI IN MILITARY APPLICATIONS.

SOME OF THOSE I TALKED ABOUT WHILE ALSO RETAINING THE CONFIDENCE OF OUR CITIZENS AND ALLIES, THAT WE'RE DOING SO WITH OUR LAWS.

LET ME READ YOU A QUOTE.

YOU SAID WITH AN AI RACE UNDERWAY, THE UNITED STATES MUST CHALLENGE ITSELF TO BE FIRST.

FIRST TO BENEFIT FROM AI.

FIRST TO PROTECT FROM OUR ENEMIES AND FIRST TO USE AI IN LINE WITH THE LAWS AND VALUES OF DEMOCRACY.

DO YOU THINK THAT YOU AI WILL HELP DEFEND DEMOCRACY?

OR IS IT A REAL THREAT TO US?

>> AI HAS TREMENDOUS PROMISE.

HELPING INTELLIGENCE SERVICES MAKE SENSE OF THE VAST AMOUNTS OF INTELLIGENCE COLLECTED.

THE VAST AMOUNTS OF DATA COLLECTED.

AND MAKE SENSE OF THAT MORE QUICKLY AND IN A WAY THAT'S MORE RELEVANT FOR POLICY MAKERS.

AI WILL BE MAJOR BENEFIT ECONOMICALLY.

IT ALSO REPRESENTS A RISK FOR THE QUOTE YOU JUST SAID.

BECAUSE OUR ADVERSARIES WILL USE IT AS WELL.

COUNTRIES LIKE CHINA, AGGRESSIVE COUNTRIES LIKE IRAN, BUT ALSO, A WHOLE HOST OF POTENTIALLY TERROR GROUPS AND CYBER CRIMINALS AND THAT'S WHY WE WANT TO DO BOTH.

DEPLOY TO PROTECT OUR COUNTRY AND ALSO, PROTECT OURSELVES FROM POTENTIAL ADVERSARIES USING IT FOR ILL. WE MUST DO BOTH.

KEEP AN EYE ON HOW WE QUICKLY DEPLOY AND WHAT OUR ADVERSARIES ARE DOING.

INCLUDING PROTECTING THE SENSITIVE AI MODEL THAT'S COULD BE DRIVING, FOR EXAMPLE, HOW WE CONTROL LARGE NUMBERS OF UNMANNED DRONES.

HOW WE CONTROL LARGE NUMBERS OF UNMANNED SHIPS, AS AN EXAMPLE.

>> IF WE USED AI TO COMMAND DRONES, AS YOU SAID, OR COMMAND THE SHIPS, THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN A RULE IN THE MILITARY THAT THERE'S A HUMAN IN THE LOOP.

DOES THAT DISADVANTAGE US IN NOT BEING AS FAST AS OUR ADVERSARIES COULD BE?

>> AI IS REALLY KEY IN THAT IT WILL ALLOW US TO BE MORE PRECISE.

FOR EXAMPLE.

WHEN WE THINK ABOUT A POTENTIAL CONFLICT IN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA, THE VAST PACIFIC OCEAN, BEING ABLE TO DETECT SHIPS, BEING ABLE TO DETECT A PARTICULAR AGO GROU SHIPS APPROACHING.

WHAT IS THE PATTERN ANALYSIS TO SAY, IS THIS AN OFFENSIVE, IS THIS A POTENTIAL DEFENSIVE MISSION?

SO AI WILL BE CRITICAL IN INFORMING HUMANS AND MAKING HUMANS MORE EFFECTIVE IN MILITARY OPERATIONS.

THAT'S A DECISION THE NATIONAL SECURITY HAS MADE.

IN MAKING FASTER DECISIONS, MORE ACCURATE IN MAKING DECISIONS IN THOSE KINDS OF SENSITIVE SCENARIOS.

>> YOU POINT OUT THAT A MAJOR DISTINCTION BETWEEN WHAT'S HAPPENING IN CHINA WITH DEEPSEEK AND OTHER THINGS VERSUS WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE U.S. IS THAT CHINA BOTH HAS GOVERNMENT-RUN PROGRAMS AND THE COMPANIES IN CHINA HAVE TO SHARE THINGS WITH THE GOVERNMENT.

YOU WERE ON ALL SIDES, LOOKING AT ALL SIDES OF THAT ISSUE BEFORE U.S. COMPANIES, SUCH AS GOOGLE, SUCH AS META, SOMETIMES SHARE DATA WITH THE U.S. AND SOMETIMES RESIST IT.

DO WE NEED TO CHANGE THE WAY WE OPERATE SO THAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT CAN HAVE A BETTER PARTNERSHIP WITH THE PRIVATE COMPANIES DEVELOPING AI HERE?

>> THE PRIVATE SECTOR IS THE ENGINE OF AMERICAN INNOVATION.

PARTICULARLY IN ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

WHEN WE THINK ABOUT HOW THE U.S., AS THE COMPETITION BETWEEN DEMOCRACY AND AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENTS LIKE CHINA HEATS UP, IN TERMS THE FUTURE OF THE WORLD, WE KNOW THAT THE U.S.'S WORLD CLASS PRIVATE SECTOR ON INNOVATION IS A PART OF HOW WE COMPETE ON THAT GLOBAL STAGE.

WHAT THAT PARTNERSHIP LOOKS LIKE WILL NEED TO EVOLVE.

FOR EXAMPLE, HOW THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY USES PRIVATE SECTOR AI MODELS TO LEVERAGE WHAT THEY KNOW AND THEN FURTHER TRAIN THEM WITH CLASSIFIED INFORMATION TO ENSURE THAT THE INSIGHTS THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUTE IS PROVIDING REALLY INTEGRATES ACROSS BOTH.

>> WHEN YOU WERE IN GOVERNMENT AND THE EDWARD SNOWDEN REVELATIONS CAME ALONG, IT WAS COMPANIES LIKE GOOGLE AND AMAZON AND META HAD BEEN COOPERATING WITH THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.

THERE WAS SOME OUTRAGE THAT MAYBE SOME OF THAT DATA WAS SECRETLY GIVEN TO THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.

AND THEN THAT STOPPED.

AT THE INAUGURATION OF PRESIDENT TRUMP, WE SAW THE LEADERS OF THESE COMPANY.

MARK ZUCKERBERG OF META, JEFF BEZOS, REALLY TRYING TO FORGE A, SAY, PARTNERSHIP WITH THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

DO YOU THINK THAT WILL AFFECT HOW BIG CORPORATIONS USE DATA WHEN THE UNITED STATES INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY WANTS IT?

>> SO FIRST, THERE'S REAL VALUE IN AI IN TERMS OUR ECONOMIC STRENGTH, ECONOMIC GROWTH, AND DEPLOYING IT ACROSS INDUSTRIES TO DRIVE AMERICAN INNOVATIONS AND ADVANCEMENTS.

COMING TO YOUR QUESTION, THE LAWS THAT GOVERN HOW THOSE COMPANIES SHARE INFORMATION WITH THE U.S. INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY, WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT, ARE CLEAR.

THERE WAS A GREAT DEAL OF INCREASED TRANSPARENCY TO HELP THE AVERAGE AMERICAN AND CITIZEN UNDERSTAND THE LAWS.

THERE'S A REAL LESSON THERE.

UNTIL THE SNOWDEN REVELATIONS, U.S. INTELLIGENCE OPERATIONS WERE A BLACK BOX.

THE AVERAGE CITIZEN, THE AVERAGE ALLY, DID NOT UNDERSTAND HOW AMERICAN TECH COMPANIES, WHAT INFORMATION THEY WERE PROVIDING AND IN RESPONSE TO WHAT STANDARDS OF LAW AND CIVIL LIBERTIES AND PRIVACY PROTECTIONS.

SO THERE WAS A LOT OF WORK DONE FOLLOWING SNOWDEN TO REBUILD THAT TRUST.

THE LESSON THERE, ONE CANNOT ALLOW THIS PARTNERSHIP OF THIS COUNTRY'S INNOVATION AND THE U.S. GOVERNMENT TO BE IN A BLACK BOX.

AS THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY DEPLOYS AI IN SENSITIVE APPLICATIONS, EXPLAIN IT TRANSPARENTLY.

SLOWING THE AVERAGE AMERICAN CITIZEN UNDERSTANDS THAT WILL BE KEY TO AVOID THAT BREAKDOWN.

AND EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY, TO ENSURE AS WE SEEK TO COMPETE WITH THE AUTHORITARIAN MODELS, WHERE THAT TIE IS VERY CLEAR AND UNCONSTRAINED BY DEMOCRATIC LAWS AND VALUES, WE ALSO COMPETE ON WHO WE ARE IN THAT WAY.

>> ANNE NEUBERGER.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> SUCH A FASCINATING CONVERSATION.

FINALLY, THE AFGHAN WOMEN'S CRICKET TEAM IN AUSTRALIA FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE THEY FLED THE TALIBAN.

THEY PLAY FOR THE DREAM OF EQUALITY AND WE WILL'S RIGHTS IN THEIR COUNTRY.

UNDER DRACONIAN LEADERS, AFGHAN WOMEN ARE BANNED FROM PLAYING SPORTS.

THERE ARE ARREST WARRANTS FOR THE TOP FUNDAMENTALIST LEADERS THERE WHO THEY ACCUSE OF GENDER-BASED CRIME.

THESE WOMEN SAY TOGETHER THEY'RE BUILDING NOT JUST A TEAM BUT A MOVEMENT FOR HOPE AND CHANGE.

THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS COMING UP EVERY NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM LONDON.