>>> LOOKING FOR EVERY POSSIBLE VOTER.

[ MUSIC ] >>> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

WE WON'T KNOW FOR 2 1/2 WEEKS IF THE POLLS ARE CORRECT, BUT AS OF RIGHT NOW, A RAZOR THIN MARGIN SEPARATES THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES IN THE CENTER CANDIDATES HERE IN OHIO.

IN THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE, LOOK TRUMP AND CONTINUE TO FLY OVER OHIO AS THEY BOUNCE BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN PENNSYLVANIA AND MICHIGAN.

THIS WEEKEND HARRIS WAS ON FOX NEWS FOR A TOUGH INTERVIEW.

DONALD TRUMP PLAYED DJ AND ENJOYED 40 MINUTES OF MUSIC AT AN ODD TOWN HALL.

BOTH CAMPAIGNS CONTINUE TO MAKE VERY SPECIFIC APPEARANCES AIMED VOTERS.

YOU WATCH A LOT OF CAMPAIGNS, YOU'VE BEEN TO MICHIGAN, WHAT IS GOING TO BE THE DIFFERENCE IN THESE STATES, PARTICULARLY MICHIGAN?

>> WELL, IN MOST PLACES IT IS GOING TO BE VOTER TURNOUT.

AND WHO GETS THERE FOR THE VOTE, AND WHAT THE INTENSITY BEHIND THAT IS.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT IS UNCLEAR WITH POLLING THESE DAYS, HOW THE POLLING TAKES HOLD.

BUT WHAT I WILL SAY IS THAT THE INTENSITY BEHIND THE HARRIS CAMPAIGN STILL IS MAINTAINED IN MANY OF THE BASE COMMUNITIES, AND THAT IS GOING TO HELP.

BUT SHE IS GOING TO HAVE TO GET HER MESSAGE OUT, AND SHE IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE SPENDING A LOT OF TIME IN MICHIGAN AND PENNSYLVANIA.

AND SHE IS GOING TO HAVE TO NARROW HER FIELD TO A COUPLE OF THE KEY STATES.

I KNOW THERE ARE SOME OTHER PERIPHERY STATES, BUT IT IS GOING TO HAVE TO REALLY INTENSIFY.

THERE ARE A FEW STATES SHE NEEDS TO WIN.

>> THOSE THREE SO-CALLED BLUE WALL STATES, PENNSYLVANIA, MICHIGAN, AND WISCONSIN?

>> I THINK SO, THOUGH YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO THROW NORTH CAROLINA IN.

THAT IS PROBABLY IN PLAY MOSTLY BECAUSE OF THE GOVERNOR THAT THEY HAVE RUNNING ON THE BALLOT WHO SHOULD NOT EVEN BE ON THAT BALLOT.

BUT THAT SORT OF SOFTENS THAT RACE.

>> MIKE, PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS BEEN BARNSTORMING AS MUCH AS KAMALA HARRIS IS, THE PROBLEM WITH HIM AS HE IS UNDISCIPLINED.

HE GETS OFF MESSAGE ON THESE RALLIES, AND GOES OFF ON TANGENTS.

IS THAT GOING TO AFFECT HIS RACE?

>> NO, I THINK THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY LIKE.

THEY DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO SIT THERE AND LISTEN TO A READ CAMPAIGN SPEECH.

I THINK, LET DOES THAT REALLY WELL.

SHE READS THE SPEECH.

IF YOU LIKE TRUMP, YOU YOU LIKE HIM.

IF YOU DON'T, YOU DON'T.

BUT MY GOOD FRIEND, ANDREW TOBIAS, ON AN ANNUAL BASIS TWEETS OUT HIS PREDICTIONS.

I LOVE READING THAT EVERY YEAR, GREAT JOB, SIR.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE BASE IN THE STATE, LIKE YOU MENTIONED, PENNSYLVANIA, MICHIGAN, WISCONSIN, VOTER ENTHUSIASM IS ON OUR SIDE.

THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, WHEN YOU THINK OF THE COST OF GROCERIES, ISSUES, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE VOTERS, TIM WALZ IS NOT APPEALING TO INNER-CITY VOTERS, AFRICAN-AMERICAN, HISPANIC, LOW-INCOME VOTERS, HE IS NOT.

AND KAMALA IS NOT RECEIVED, EITHER.

SHE HAS TRIED DESPERATELY TO GO ON THE SHOWS, RADIO PROGRAMS, MORNING DRIVES.

AND IT'S JUST NOT WORKING.

THE ECONOMY IS THAT, AND WHEN THE ECONOMY IS BAD THE PARTY OUT OF POWER USUALLY GETS BACK IN.

>> I WENT BACK AND LOOKED AT 2020, AND MICHIGAN, JOE BIDEN, THE DAY BEFORE ELECTION DAY, LET MICHIGAN BY EIGHT POINTS.

HE LED WISCONSIN BY EIGHT POINTS.

HE LED IN SYLVANIA BY FIVE.

HE WON ALL THE STATES, BUT BY ONE OR TWO POINTS.

I MEAN, HOW ACCURATE DO YOU THINK THESE POLLS ARE THIS YEAR IN CAPTURING THAT HIDDEN TRUMP VOTE WE SAW IN 2016 AND 2020?

>> YEAH, I AM NOT PAID AS WELL AS UPHOLSTER, I AM ALSO NOT UPHOLSTER.

BUT YEAH, THE BIG QUESTION IS, TRIED TO ADDRESS WHAT HAPPENED IN 2020 AND FIX IT.

SO THE QUESTION IS, ARE THE POLLS BIASED AGAINST TRUMP OR BIASED AGAINST A CLOSE RACE?

SO, OBVIOUSLY IT APPEARS NOW, BUT I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS.

BUT I AM NOT NECESSARILY ASSUMING THAT YOU COULD ADD FIVE, SIX POINTS TO TRUMP NUMBERS.

I AM NOT UPHOLSTER, IT IS HARD TO TELL.

>> IN SOME STATES, I THINK JORDAN WAS VERY CLOSE.

A LOT OF THESE STATES WERE WAY OFF, PART OF IT IS THEY HAD THE TAKE A LOOK AT HOW THEY WERE DOING THEIR POLLING, HOW MUCH THEY WERE DOING ONLINE.

THERE IS A DISTRUST OF ANSWERING QUESTIONS ABOUT POLITICS.

PART OF THE POST TRUMP ERA ON BOTH SIDES IS THAT PEOPLE ARE AFRAID TO SAY WHO THEREFORE, BECAUSE IT GETS SO CONTENTIOUS RIGHT NOW.

I DO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, HARRIS IS ACTUALLY DOING A LOT AND APPEALING A LOT.

IN COMMUNITIES, AND DEALING WITH THE ECONOMY.

AND I DON'T KNOW THAT TRUMP IS REALLY DOING MUCH TO MOVE NUMBERS.

I MEAN, WELL, I DIDN'T REALLY LIKE HIS MUSIC SELECTION, BUT THAT WAS JUST A WEIRD, YOU'VE GOT TO GO UP THERE AND SELL YOURSELF, AND NOT JUST SIT THERE AND DANCE ON STAGE.

WAS THAT DANCING ON STAGE?

I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WOULD CALL THAT.

>> SWING.

THE PEOPLE WHO SHOW UP AT THE KAMALA RALLIES ARE VOTING FOR KAMALA.

YOU ARE NOT SWAYING VOTERS AT A RALLY.

>> THEY GET A LOT OF COVERAGE, AND IF PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT HIS AGE, LIKE THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT BIDEN'S AGE BEFORE HE DROPPED OUT, THAT HAS TO GIVE SUPPORTERS OF DONALD TRUMP PAUSED.

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

AGE IS JUST A NUMBER IF YOU HAVE COGNITIVE ABILITY.

NOBODY WORKS HARDER THAN DONALD TRUMP.

HE WORKS HARD.

I DON'T THINK THAT IS AN ISSUE FOR HIM.

I KNOW THE MEDIA IS TRYING TO DO IT, BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU, SINGLE MOMS DON'T CARE ABOUT HIS CHOLESTEROL LEVEL.

THEY CARE ABOUT BEING ABLE TO AFFORD GROCERIES.

>> BUT IF JOE BIDEN HAD GONE UP MINUTES THEY WOULD'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT A LOT.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF HE WAS STUMBLING AND BUMBLING.

BUT YES, IT WOULD BE.

>> DONALD TRUMP SAYS JANUARY 6th IS A DAY OF LOVE.

THAT DOES NOT MATCH THE VIDEO THAT EVERYONE SAW.

>> IT CERTAINLY DOES NOT.

I DON'T TO ANYONE AROUND THIS TABLE WAS THERE, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT WAS ACCURATE.

>> PEOPLE KIND OF FORGET WHAT THEY SAW ON JANUARY 6.

>> I SAY THIS RESPECTFULLY, MIKE, THERE WERE THINGS THAT HAPPEN ON THAT DAY BUT NOBODY WANTED TO SEE.

BUT PEOPLE DON'T CARE ANYMORE.

PEOPLE THAT HATE DONALD TRUMP CARE, BUT THE AVERAGE OHIOAN, AND AMERICAN THAT CAN'T AFFORD THINGS THEY USED TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD, DON'T CARE ABOUT JANUARY 6, 2020.

>> SOME OF THIS TO CARE ABOUT THINGS LIKE ABORTION AND THE FACT THAT HE HAS MADE IT VERY CLEAR HE WILL SUPPORT LEGISLATION THAT WILL TAKE AWAY THEIR CHOICES, ESPECIALLY -- >> MUCH THE OPPOSITE.

MUCH TO MY CHAGRIN, I WISH HE DID SAY THAT, BUT HE SAID JUST THE OPPOSITE.

HE WOULD VETO ANY BANDS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

I AM ON THE OTHER SIDE, I'M TELLING YOU, HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH ME ON THAT ISSUE.

THE TALKING POINT IS NOT ACCURATE.

>> I'M NOT CHANGING MY TALKING POINT.

IT IS VERY CLEAR.

>> HE DID APPOINT 3 SUPREME COURT JUSTICES WHO OVERTURN ROE V WADE AND SAID HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT.

>> AND DOWN IN FLORIDA HE TURNED CHANGES COMPLETELY ON THE BALLOT ISSUE.

>> TO THE UNDECIDEDS, ARE THERE UNDECIDEDS?

I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THERE ARE ANY UNDECIDEDS LEFT.

ARE YOU GOING TO VOTE, STAY HOME, OR VOTE FOR THEIR PARTY?

>> BACK TO THE POLLING, IT IS REMARKABLE HOW THEY ARE SHOWING THIS 1% MARGIN IN THE STATES WHERE WE HAD 1% MARGINS OR LESS BEFORE.

THE UNDECIDED PERCENTAGE OF THE ELECTORATE, THE TWO OR 3% OF THE STATES.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE PEOPLE, MAYBE TENS OF THOUSANDS.

SO PEOPLE LIKE US WHO SIT AND THINK ABOUT POLITICS 24/7.

THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE LIKE OH, IS THERE AN ELECTION COMING UP?

AND THOSE OF THE EVIL THEY ARE TRYING TO REACH.

THEY ARE NOT ENGAGED WITH THIS STUFF.

TO WORRY ABOUT IN THEIR LIVES.

SO WE NEED TO TALK TO PEOPLE LIKE THAT.

I THINK VOTERS KIND OF DEFY EXPECTATIONS FOR PEOPLE LIKE US WHO SIT AND TALK ABOUT IT FOR A LIVING.

>> ON KAMALA HARRIS, IT IS A NEW CAMPAIGN.

ONLY A FEW MONTHS.

BUT SHE ONLY HAS TWO WEEKS LEFT.

IN A NORMAL CAMPAIGN YOU HAVE THE FIRST COUPLE OF MONTHS OF BEING A CANDIDATE, YOU CATCH FIRE, YOU ARE THE HOT NEW THING.

AND THEN SOMETIMES THOSE CANDIDATES FADE AWAY.

IS THAT A DANGER FOR KAMALA HARRIS?

THAT PEOPLE HAVE JUST NOT GOTTEN ENOUGH OF HER YET?

>> NO, I THINK WHERE SHE'S AT RIGHT NOW IS WHERE THE RACE SORT OF SETTLES DOWN, AND IT IS EVEN A LOT OF THESE DIFFERENT STATES.

I THINK THE REASON THEY ARE BATTLEGROUND STATES IS THEY WERE EVEN TO BEGIN WITH.

ONCE THEIR VERSION OF ISSUE ONE PASSED IN MICHIGAN, EVEN THEIR LEGISLATURE IS PRETTY MUCH 50- 50 AND UP FOR GRABS EVERY SINGLE CYCLE.

WHAT YOU ARE SAYING FROM HER IS TRYING TO FIND HERSELF AND GET HER VOTE OUT.

BUT IT IS REALLY GOING TO BE ABOUT BASE TURNOUT AT THIS POINT.

THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF SWING VOTER OUT THERE, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE ABOUT BASE VOTERS AND TURNOUT.

>> ALL RIGHT, THE U.S. SENATE RACE BETWEEN SHARAD BROWN AND HIS CHALLENGER, BARRY MARINO, IS THE MOST EXPENSIVE IN OHIO HISTORY.

BROWN RAISED $31 MILLION IN JUST THE LAST THREE MONTHS.

THAT WAS FAR MORE THAN THE $6.5 MILLION THE MARINO RACE.

BUT IT REALLY DOES NOT MATTER BECAUSE THE MARINO SIDE IS ACTUALLY OUTSPENDING THE BROWN SIDE ON TV AND VIDEO ADVERTISING.

THAT IS BECAUSE OUTSIDE GROUPS SUPPORTING MARINO ARE MAKING UP THE DIFFERENCE, AND THAT IS WHY WE ARE SEEING GRAINY VIDEOS OF THE CANDIDATES EVERY TIME WE WATCH TV OR CLICK ON A YOUTUBE VIDEO.

AND AT THIS POINT, I KNOW WE ARE PAYING MORE ATTENTION THAN OTHER FOLKS.

BUT EVEN FOLKS ARE CASUAL OBSERVERS ARE SEEING THESE OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

ARE THEY LOSING THEIR EFFECTIVENESS?

ARE THEY MAKING A DIFFERENCE?

>> AS ANDREW SAID, GUYS LIKE US AROUND THIS TABLE.

BUT I THINK THEY'D DO LOSE THEIR EFFECTIVENESS.

YOU HAVE TO DO THEM, YOU HAVE TO BE ON TV.

BUT I'M NOT WATCHING THEM, I'M GLOSSING OVER.

FAST FORWARDING.

YOU HAVE TO WATCH LIVE SPORTS AND FAST FORWARD TO THE MONEYMAKER.

I THINK THEY DO LOSE THEIR EFFECTIVENESS.

NO AMOUNT OF MONEY IS GOING TO, IN MY OPINION, I MEAN, HE HAS BEEN IN OFFICE FOR 30 YEARS.

THE PRODUCTION CREW WERE NOT BORN WHEN HE GOT ELECTED.

OVER 30 YEARS.

AND I THINK PEOPLE ARE JUST SICK AND TIRED OF IT AND THEY WANT CHANGE.

IF TRUMP IS GOING TO WIN BY EIGHT OR MORE, WHICH HE WILL, IT IS TYPICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO GET ACROSS THE FINISH LINE.

BUT TO THE MATTER OF ADS AND MONEY, TIM RYAN HAD OVER $50 MILLION AND JD VANCE BEAT HIM BY SEVEN POINTS.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, THERE IS NO AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT WILL SAVE BROWN.

>> OBVIOUSLY MIKE DeWINE HAS BEEN AROUND EVEN LONGER THAN BROWN ON THE BALLOT, AND THAT WAS NOT AN ISSUE.

SO TO YOUR TALKING POINT THE LAST TIME WE HAD AN ELECTION YEAR IN THIS STATE, WHAT I WOULD SAY ABOUT THIS IS HE HAS CONSISTENTLY RUN, GETTING TRUMP BROWN VOTERS, AT LEAST 6-7 POINTS, THAT IS NOT CHANGED.

AND AS LONG AS HE CONTINUES LOCKED IN AND AS LONG AS THE MARGIN WITH TRUMP REMAINS WHERE IT IS, HE IS GOING TO WIN.

STATISTICALLY, HE CAN WIN AND HE IS WINNING IN MANY POLLS.

>> ANDREW, WHAT IS THE ISSUE THAT WILL MAKE THE DIFFERENCE IN THIS RACE?

WHEN YOU TALK TO VOTERS AND YOU TALK TO THE CAMPAIGN?

IS IT IMMIGRATION, IS IT ABORTION, IS IT THE ECONOMY?

>> IT'S REALLY HARD TO PIN IT DOWN TO AN ISSUE THAT WILL MAKE THE DIFFERENCE.

I THINK IT'S KIND OF COMMON SENSE, BUT AGAIN, THE POLLING IS VERY CLEAR THAT THE ECONOMY IS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE ON VOTERS MINDS.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO THE INDIVIDUAL PERSON?

THEIR SLICE OF THE ECONOMY?

I THINK THAT IS KIND OF THE WATER THAT EVERYBODY IS SWIMMING IN RIGHT NOW.

>> TRANSGENDER ISSUES IS THE NUMBER ONE ATTACK POINT, I WOULD SAY, FOR JARON BROWN.

BUT HERE ARE SOME STATISTICS.

1% OF THE AMERICAN POPULATION IDENTIFIES AS TRANSGENDER.

THERE MAY BE A HALF-DOZEN ATHLETES IN OHIO HIGH SCHOOL SPORTS, SIX OR SO THAT COMPETE, TRANSGENDER ATHLETES THAT WHY IS THIS EVEN AN ISSUE?

I MEAN, IT AFFECTS SO FEW PEOPLE.

NO ONE SHOULD BE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, BUT IT AFFECTS SUCH A SMALL SLIVER OF OUR POPULATION AND IT IS REALLY NOT, AS FAR AS ATHLETES GO, IT'S NOT AN ISSUE AT ALL.

>> BECAUSE PARENTS CARE ABOUT THEIR DAUGHTERS DEEPLY.

MOM'S, DAD'S, SINGLE MOMS, SINGLE DADS.

AT THE END OF THE DAY IF YOU ARE SPENDING $500 MILLION, YOU ARE DOING FOCUS GROUPS, YOU'RE DOING POLLING.

YOU ARE ASKING OHIO VOTERS WHAT THE ISSUES ARE THE MATTER TO YOU.

THEY'RE NOT THROWING DARTS OF THE DARTBOARD.

THIS IS ALL STRATEGIC.

WHEN YOU ASK OHIO VOTERS PARENTS IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR DAUGHTER PLAYING AGAINST ANOTHER BOY, THEY ARE LIKE HECK NO, WE DON'T WANT THAT.

>> OKAY, SO FIRST OF ALL, IT IS A PARENTAL DECISION.

TRANSGENDER KIDS HAVE EXISTED IN THE STATE FOR A LONG TIME.

WHEN IT COMES TO BATHROOM POLICIES, SCHOOLS, FOR 126 YEARS, HAVE BEEN ABLE TO MANAGE BATHROOM HALL PASSES.

THIS IS NOT A BIG ISSUE.

THERE HAVE BEEN NO SURGERIES.

THE GOVERNOR HIMSELF SAID THAT LAST WEEK.

THERE'S ONLY ONE REASON THIS HAPPENED.

IN VIRGINIA IT WAS BROUGHT UP AS A SWING ISSUE, THAT IS THE VIRGINIA GOVERNOR WHOSE REPUBLICAN WROTE THAT ISSUE TO BE ABLE TO WIN THERE.

BASICALLY BULLYING AND CREATING AN ISSUE OVER A SUBSET OF PEOPLE IN THIS STATE, IN ALL STATES.

I WAS UP NORTH, THEY WERE RUNNING AGAINST A DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE, RUNNING AGAINST KAMALA HARRIS, THEY ARE MAKING THIS ISSUE INTO AN ISSUE THAT IS NOT AFFECTING PEOPLE AT ALL.

AND ONE LAST THING, 30% OF TRANSGENDER KIDS HAVE BEEN REPORTED TO HAVE HAD SUICIDAL THOUGHTS, THIS IS AWFUL.

>> THE OTHER ISSUE IS ABORTION- RIGHTS ARE REALLY AIMED AT BASICALLY SUBURBAN WOMEN.

AND THIS WEEK YOU SAW, ON FRIDAY IN BASICALLY NORTH DELAWARE COUNTY, BERNIE MARINO WAS IN WESTERVILLE ON FRIDAY TRYING TO GET OUT THE VOTE, DOING GET OUT THE VOTE RALLIES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND YOU SEE IT IN THE ADS.

THEY ARE FEATURING SUBURBAN LOOKING WOMEN.

>> YEAH, AND AGAIN, I GO BACK TO THE POLLING THAT INFORMS ME, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE CAMPAIGNS ARE ALSO LOOKING AT.

THERE IS A GENERALIZE, MEN ARE MORE LIKELY TO VOTE REPUBLICAN, WOMEN ARE MORE LIKELY TO VOTE DEMOCRAT.

THERE IS A REASON WHY.

WHEN BERNIE MARINO MADE THE COMMENTS HE DID ABOUT SINGLE ISSUE WOMEN VOTERS IN THE SUBURBS, BROWN'S CAMPAIGN CUT THAT INTO AN AD.

IT IS WHY HE IS HAVING A RETRO TALKING ABOUT BASICALLY WHATEVER HE CAN.

SO IT'S AN AREA THAT BROWN IS TRYING TO PICK UP.

LIKE BERNIE MARINO IS TRYING TO STEM THE DAMAGE, AND IT IS THE KIND OF THINGS THE CAMPAIGNS TO WHEN THEY ARE COMPETING FOR THE SAME TYPE OF VOTERS.

>> THE NARROWNESS OF THE MARGINS HERE.

ANYWAY, LEADING SUPPORTERS AND OPPONENTS, ISSUE ONE.

THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT WOULD CREATE A 15 MEMBER INDEPENDENT COMMISSION TO DRAW LEGISLATIVE MUCH AS THEY DISAGREE ON THE FIX, BOTH FORMER SUPREME COURT JUSTICE MARINO CONNOR AND CHIEF FAVOR SAY WHAT OHIO IS DOING NOW IS NOT WORKING.

>> WAS SOLD TO THE PEOPLE IN 2015 AND 2018 WAS BILLED AS THE ANSWER TO ELIMINATE GERRYMANDERING.

IT DOES JUST THE OPPOSITE.

NOW, WHY DOES IT DO JUST THE OPPOSITE?

YOU KNOW, I USED THIS ANALOGY OVER AND OVER AGAIN, THAT BOTH 15 AND 18 HAD EMBEDDED IN THOSE AMENDMENTS, I CALL IT THE TROJAN HORSE.

THE TROJAN HORSE IS THE MAKEUP OF THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION.

SEVEN POLITICIANS.

AND SEVEN POLITICIANS WHO ARE INTERESTED, INCLUDING PARTY OVER PEOPLE, CREATING MAPS THAT WILL ENHANCE THEIR POWER.

>> I WILL BE THE FIRST ONE TO SAY THE CURRENT SYSTEM DOES NOT WORK VERY WELL.

THIS SYSTEM WILL MAKE IT WORSE.

IT WILL MAKE IT WORSE BECAUSE, EFFECTIVELY WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS TAKING THE RULES THAT TRADITIONALLY YOU USED TO DRAW GEOGRAPHICAL DISTRICTS AND TURNING THEM ON THEIR HEAD.

WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS TAKING CONCEPTS LIKE COMPACTNESS AND KEEPING COMMUNITIES TOGETHER, AND MAKING THEM SUBSERVIENT TO THIS CONCEPT OF PROPORTIONALITY.

WELL, HERE IS THE PROBLEM, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

OHIOANS DON'T LIVE PROPORTIONALLY.

>> ANDREW TOBIAS HAS THE MONEY ADVANTAGE, THEY ARE RUNNING THE ADS.

NOT AS MANY ADS ON THE OTHER SIDE.

PEOPLE GENERALLY LIKE GERRYMANDERING BUT DON'T LIKE GERRYMANDERING.

WANT TO DO AWAY WITH IT.

WILL BE THE DIFFERENCE IN THIS RACE?

>> ON SOME LEVEL I SEE SIGNS OF VOTERS NOT CLEARLY UNDERSTANDING WHAT THIS IS ABOUT, AND IT IS PROBABLY GOING TO PUSH THEM TOWARDS YES.

BUT IT IS A QUESTION IF THEY ARE GOING TO SEE THE ADS BECAUSE OF ALL THE SENATE ADS AIRING ALONGSIDE THEM.

TALKING TO ANOTHER REPORTER TODAY, AND THEY SAID THAT THE KINDS OF SEARCH TRAFFIC AND THE WAYS THAT PEOPLE ARE FINDING THEIR ARTICLES ARE SIMILAR TO WHAT WE SAW LAST YEAR.

SO, I KNOW IS I HAVE BEEN WRITING MY STORIES, I'VE BEEN TRYING TO FOCUS ON JUST EXPLAINING WHAT IT ACTUALLY DOES.

I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND, THINGS LIKE THIS, LAST YEAR WE VOTED ON ABORTION RIGHTS.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE DO HAVE A BASIC UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THAT MEANS.

BUT STUFF LIKE REDISTRICTING, I MEAN, PROPORTIONALITY, GEOGRAPHICAL COMPACTNESS, IT IS PRETTY ESOTERIC.

SO THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE IT ABOUT POLITICIANS AND DRAWING THEIR OWN DISTRICTS.

THEY HAVE THESE MORE HIGH-LEVEL WAYS TO DESCRIBE THESE THINGS.

BUT IT IS JUST TOUGH.

IT IS AN OPEN QUESTION, WHERE THIS ONE STANDS.

BECAUSE IT IS AN OPEN QUESTION OF HOW WELL PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT'S IN IT.

>> THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS NOT GOOD.

GOVERNOR TO WISE THINK THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS NOT GOOD.

THEY BOTH SIT ON THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION.

WHY DIDN'T REPUBLICANS PRESENT A DIFFERENT SYSTEM THAT THEY WOULD LIKE BETTER THAN THE ONE THAT IS ON THE BALLOT?

THEY HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT.

>> LOOK, I DISAGREE WITH MIKE GOODFRIEND ON THIS ISSUE, BECAUSE THE VOTERS ALWAYS GET IT RIGHT.

AND AS MARINO SAID, 70% OF VOTERS, DEMOCRATS, REPUBLICANS, LIBERALS, ALL CAME TOGETHER TWICE TO COME UP WITH OUR CURRENT SYSTEM.

AND WHAT HAPPENED LAST YEAR?

ALLISON RUSSO SAT DOWN WITH JASON STEVENS AND THE OTHERS, AND THEY CAME UP WITH A UNANIMOUS MAP.

THIS IS WHAT THE VOTERS IN OHIO VOTED FOR.

70%.

IT WASN'T 51, 49, 70%.

AND IT WORKED BECAUSE ALLISON RUSSO, THE LIBERAL DEMOCRAT LEADER SAID YES, THIS IS A MAP.

AND THEY ALL VOTED FOR YOU.

EVERY DEMOCRAT VOTED FOR IT.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT.

>> THEY SAY COULD'VE BEEN WORSE.

>> HERE IS THE REALITY, WHAT HAPPENED HERE WAS THAT THE SYSTEM THE PEOPLE PUT IN, PEOPLE THOUGHT IF THE SUPREME COURT RULED THAT SOMETHING WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, THAT THE LEGISLATURE WOULD BE MATURE ENOUGH TO GO BACK AND DO THE RIGHT THING.

INSTEAD, SEVEN TIMES THEY HAD TO SAY IT WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, AND THE LEGISLATURE JUST DID WHAT THEY WANTED ANYWAYS.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS, AS LONG AS A POLITICIAN IS INVOLVED IN DRAWING THESE LINES, AS LONG AS THEY HOLD THE CRAYONS, I DON'T NOT GOING TO BE FAIR.

AND THE THING THAT I LEARNED IN MICHIGAN WHEN THEY DID THIS, IS IT HAS BECOME 50-50 DISTRICTS, IT TOOK ABOUT TWO TERMS, AND THERE IS A LOT MORE ACTIVITY.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE NONCOMPETITIVE RACES IN LIKE 60% OF OUR RACES, REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT, WHERE SOMETIMES YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE PEOPLE FILE TO RUN.

>> UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.

THE PEOPLE DID NOT EXPECT.

>> I THINK THERE ARE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES ANYTIME YOU THINK THAT THINGS ARE CONTENTIOUS.

WELL, 60% OF YOUR RACES AREN'T ACTUALLY RACIST.

SO NOW YOU'VE GOT A FIGHT FOR CONTROL IN THE LEGISLATURE AT ALL TIMES.

YOU HAVE A SITUATION IN THE DISTRICT WHICH HAD BEEN TRADITIONALLY AN AFRICAN- AMERICAN DISTRICT.

SHE IS OBVIOUSLY OF PALESTINIAN DESCENT.

AND THERE WAS A LARGE POPULATION IN DEARBORN.

THE POPULATION QUESTION IS WOULD THAT NOT OF HAPPENED WHEN HER PREDECESSOR WAS IN THAT SEAT?

>> LET ME FOCUS ON THAT COMMENT YES, UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.

ACCORDING TO FEDERAL COURTS, 13 DISTRICTS WERE WIPED OUT AND 13 BLACK LEGISLATORS IN MICHIGAN GOT THROWN OUT BECAUSE OF AN INDEPENDENT TROJAN HORSE COMMITTEE.

LET'S TALK ABOUT TROJAN HORSES.

THAT IS NOT EVEN ANSWERABLE TO THE PUBLIC.

CAME UP WITH MAPS THAT EXCLUDED 13 BLACK DEMOCRATS IN MICHIGAN.

THIS IS PUBLIC RECORD.

>> THEY DREW EVEN DISTRICTS, AND SOME OF THOSE DISTRICTS WILL BE AFRICAN-AMERICAN AGAIN.

IT IS JUST THE WAY THEY'VE DRAWN IT, THEY ARE ALL COMPETITIVE.

PEOPLE HAVE TO RUN.

AND SOMETIMES IT WORKS OUT, AND SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T.

>> ALL RIGHT, WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS HERE.

IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ELECTION, THE PROCESS, CANDIDATE, OR THE ISSUES, WOSU HAS A GREAT VOTER GUIDE.

YOU CAN FIND IT ON OUR WEBSITE, WOSU.ORG/VOTERGUIDE.

IT'S A GREAT TOOL, CHECK IT OUT.

>>> OUR NEXT TOPIC.

OHIO HAS BEEN LOSING POPULATION CLOUT TO OTHER STATES FOR DECADES.

JOB LOSSES, TAX POLICY, AND UBIQUITOUS AIR CONDITIONING IN SOUTHERN CLIMBS HAVE PROMPTED OHIO AND OTHER NORTHERN STATES TO MOVE SOUTH AND WEST.

THE LATEST PROJECTIONS FROM THE PROPERTY DEVELOPMENTS HAVE EVEN WORSE NEWS.

IT PROJECTS OHIO WILL LOSE NEARLY 6% OF ITS POPULATION BY 2050, ON AVERAGE.

CENTRAL OHIO COUNTIES WILL ACTUALLY SEE AN INCREASE OF 18% IN POPULATION.

THOSE OF THE BLUE COUNTIES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MAP.

BUT NEARLY ALL THE REST OF THE STATES WILL SEE DOUBLE-DIGIT DECLINES.

THOSE ARE THE RED AND DEEP RED COUNTIES ON THIS MAP.

THAT IS NOT PRETTY, ESPECIALLY ON THE EASTERN SIDE.

BRIAN, YOU LEFT OHIO AND YOU CAME BACK.

IS THIS JUST NATURAL ATTRITION, THE POPULATION SHIPPED OVER DECADES BECAUSE IT IS WARMER, SUNNIER?

>> NO, THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT YOU CAN DO.

I THINK PART OF WHAT HAS HELPED CENTRAL OHIO AND MAKES IT SUCH A UNIQUE PLACE IN THE COUNTRY, BY THE WAY, IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY CAN BACK, IS THAT OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY HAS CREATED A VERY DIVERSE CULTURE.

FAMILIES ARE DIVERSE.

THE PLACES YOU LIVE ARE DIVERSE.

I AM IN A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAS JEWS, MUSLIMS, JAPANESE, CHINESE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, AFRICAN AMERICANS.

YOU DON'T SEE THAT VERY OFTEN.

USING VERY SEGREGATED PLACES.

I DO THINK THAT SOME OF THE RIGHT-WING RHETORIC SCARES PEOPLE OFF.

I THINK SOME OF THE EXTREME STUFF DOES SCARE YOUNGER PEOPLE AWAY.

>> PEOPLE ARE MOVING TO TEXAS, AND THAT IS A PRETTY CONSERVATIVE STATE.

>> WELL, AUSTIN HAS KIND OF COOLED OFF A BIT.

>> MICHAEL, ON THE PROJECTIONS, THE CITY OF COLUMBUS REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT ORGANIZATIONS, HAS DOUBLED THE POPULATION INCREASE OF WHAT THE STATE DOES.

WHAT YOU MAKE OF THAT?

IS CENTRAL OHIO MORE OPTIMISTIC?

WHERE DO YOU GET THESE PROJECTIONS?

>> JOBS, JOBS, JOBS.

I'M FROM NORTHEAST OHIO, OTHERS AROUND THIS TABLE, TOO.

THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR.

WHITE-COLLAR JOBS, BLUE-COLLAR JOBS, WHATEVER IT MAY BE.

THIS IS WHERE THE WORK IS.

IT WOULD BE GREAT IF WE COULD GET SOME MORE COMPANIES TO MOVE OUTSIDE OF CENTRAL OHIO.

IT IS GREAT TO SEE THE INTEL GROW.

BUT WE NEED TO GET MORE STRATEGIC PLACEMENT ACROSS THE STATE.

YOU ASK 100 PEOPLE AND YOU GET 100 DIFFERENT ANSWERS WHY OUR POPULATION IS DECLINING.

WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT WHY THERE ARE 22,000 ABORTIONS IN OHIO EVERY YEAR.

WE ARE AVERAGING 20,000 ABORTIONS AT 320,000 HUMAN BEINGS THAT COULD BE IN OHIO.

WE COULD'VE HELPED OUR POPULATION THAT WAY.

AGAIN, ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE ARE SEEING A POPULATION DECLINE.

>> THROUGHOUT EASTERN OHIO, ALONG THE RIVER, THAT WAS PRETTY STARK RED COUNTIES THERE.

AND THE FRACKING BOOM HAS SLOWED, OR COOLED, THAT HAS NOT HELPED OUT THERE.

>> YEAH, THAT PART OF THE STATE, THE ECONOMY KIND OF BUILT UP AROUND GEOGRAPHIC FEATURES LIKE THE OHIO RIVER OR THE PRESENCE OF COLD, THAT MANUFACTURING TOWNS, THINGS LIKE MOBILIZATION HAVE CAUSED MANUFACTURING DECLINED.

THERE IS AUTOMATION, THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO IT'S A TOUGH ISSUE FOR THE EASTERN PART OF THE STATE.

I KNOW IT'S NOT REALLY THE INTENTION FOR POLICYMAKERS TO LEAVE THEM BEHIND AND LET A TOUGH QUESTION.

IT IS SOMETHING WE HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR A LONG TIME, AND THERE ARE ALL THESE OTHER POLICY ISSUES, TOO.

I THINK THAT UNDERLINES THE FIRST THING I MENTIONED.

>> SAID BRIAN, IS IT VEGETATION?

IS THERE A SILVER BULLET?

>> I DO THINK THAT IF YOU LOOK AT THE COMMONALITY, AND I NOTICED THIS WHEN THEY WERE TRYING TO PUT PLANTS IN DIFFERENT PLACES WHEN I WAS IN DETROIT.

THE COMMONALITY THAT EXISTS IN THOSE PLACES HAS TO DO WITH NOT ONLY NATURAL RESOURCES, GOOD ELECTRICITY, TAX POLICY, INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, IS NOT AS HIGH ON IT.

THE UNIVERSITIES MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

SKILLED WORKFORCE AT UNIVERSITIES, AND SORT OF THIS DIVERSITY OF POPULATION THE MATTERS.

>> TIME NOW FOR OUR FINAL OFF THE RECORD PARTING SHOT.

>> OH, I BELIEVE THAT BASED ON WHAT IS HAPPENING IN COLUMBUS WITH THE TRANSPORTATION ISSUE, THAT YOU ARE GOING TO SEE IN THE LAME DUCK THEY ARE GOING TO TRY TO MOVE THE TRANSPORTATION SCHOOL BUDGET OUT OF THE, INTO FROM SCHOOLS.

>> CONGRATULATIONS TO THE CLEVELAND GUARDIANS ON A MAJOR GAME.

MY DAUGHTER AND I WENT THURSDAY NIGHT, I THINK ALL OF OHIO WAS ROOTING FOR CLEVELAND AND LEADING UP TO THIS WEEKEND SERIES.

>> IT BRINGS PEOPLE TOGETHER, DOESN'T IT?

>> AMEN.

AT THE RISK OF A STEALING YOUR THUNDER, I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT.

BUT I AM GOING TO THE MARATHON ON SUNDAY.

I'M NOT RUNNING, I'LL BE WEARING MY HALLOWEEN COSTUME AND I'M GOING TO BE DELIVERING REFRESHMENTS TO ONE OF THE PARTICIPANTS.

SO IF YOU SEE A GUY WEARING A HOTDOG SUIT, YOU KNOW WHO IT IS.

>> I WILL LOOK FOR YOU, AND GOOD LUCK TO ALL THOSE RUNNING.

I HAVE ONE OFF THE RECORD COMMENT.

JD VANCE, ONCE AGAIN, SPREAD ANOTHER FALSE RUMOR THIS WEEK.

THIS ONE PRETTY HARMLESS.

HE RETWEETED AN ARTICLE SAYING NEW SKYLINE CHILI ICE CREAM.

VANCE JOKINGLY WROTE THAT HE AND TRUMP WOULD STOP IT.

I AM A FAN OF GRATERS, NOT SO MUCH A FAN OF SKYLINE.

NO CHEESE, SPAGHETTI SAUCE, AND FLAVORED ICE CREAM IS PLANNED YET.

THIS WEEK.

CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION ON FACEBOOK.

ALSO WATCH US ANYTIME AT OUR WEBSITE, WOSU.ORG AND THE PBS APP.

I'M MIKE THOMPSON, HAVE A GOOD WEEK.