>>> GOVERNOR DeWINE TAKES A STAND AGAINST "WEED LIGHT."

>>> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

GOVERNOR DeWINE HAS LONG WANTED TO CRACK DOWN, EVEN BAN, UNREGULATED CANNABIS PRODUCTS --DELTA 8 AND OTHER THC PRODUCTS SOLD IN GAS STATIONS AND CONVENIENCE STORES.

THEY GIVE USERS A HIGH, BUT NOT AS POWERFUL AS MARIJUANA.

STATE LEGISLATORS HAVE DONE NOTHING ON THE ISSUE, SO THIS WEEK, DeWINE TOOK THE UNUSUAL STEP OF ISSUING AN EXECUTIVE ORDER BANNING INTOXICATING HEMP PRODUCTS FOR 90 DAYS.

HE SAYS IT'S AN EMERGENCY, BECAUSE MANY OF THE PRODUCTS ARE AIMED AT KIDS.

>> IF YOU LOOK AT THESE, I THINK IT'S PRETTY EASY TO SEE.

THIS IS THE CANDY, AND THIS IS THE INTOXICATING HEMP.

DESIGNED CLEARLY, CLEARLY TO MIMIC CANDY.

DESIGNED CLEARLY, TO ENTICE CHILDREN TO CONSUME THESE.

KEEP IN MIND, THAT THESE ARE BEING SOLD, AND THERE IS NO CHECK, NO CHECK ON AGE.

ANYONE CAN WALK IN, AND BUY ONE OF THESE.

>> DeWINE SAYS HE HOPES THIS BAN WILL PROMPT THE LEGISLATURE TO PASS A LAW REGULATING THE PRODUCTS.

SARAH DONALDSON, THESE HAVE BEEN LEGAL FOR SEVEN YEARS, SINCE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT MADE IT LEGAL, BUT AS AN EMERGENCY, HOW DOES THE GOVERNOR JUSTIFY THAT?

>> I THINK HE JUSTIFIES THAT BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT HIS NOW.

I ASKED HIM ABOUT THAT BECAUSE IN 2024, JANUARY OF 2024, HE SAID HE COULD NOT DO ANYTHING ON THE INTOXICATING HEMP ISSUES.

THESE ARE HEMP PRODUCTS THAT WERE, LIKE YOU SAID, FEDERALLY LEGALIZED.

THEY CONTAIN PSYCHOACTIVE INGREDIENTS LIKE DELTA-8, THC- A, LIKE YOU ARE SEEING AT THE COUNTER OF GAS STATIONS.

NOW, HE WENT BACK TO HIS LAWYERS AND THEY SAY HE COULD DO WHAT IS CALLED AN ADULTERATED CONSUMER PRODUCT EMERGENCY, BECAUSE HE SAYS THESE PRODUCTS ARE NOT WHAT THEY SAY THEY ARE.

>> BECAUSE THEY LOOK SO MUCH LIKE CANDY?

>> THAT IS HIS ARGUMENT, BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE HEARD FROM OPPONENTS OF THIS, WHO ARE SELLING THESE HEMP PRODUCTS THAT SAY THAT, A, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS MADE HEMP LEGAL, B, THE STATE GOVERNMENT HAS MADE HEMP LEGAL, AND C, THERE IS A WIDE RANGE OF PRODUCTS AND DeWINE IS TAKING THE WORST OF THEM.

>> WELL, USUALLY, HE IS FIRST ON THE LEGISLATURE, THE GOVERNOR DOES, THIS IS AN DONALD TRUMP'S PLAYBOOK, BEING BOLD.

>> YEAH, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, HE ASKED THEM TO ACT A YEAR AGO AND NOTHING HAS HAPPENED.

YOU KNOW, THERE IS A WHOLE WIDE VARIETY OF THESE PRODUCTS.

THERE ARE THE CANDIES HE IS TALKING ABOUT, AND THE ONES THAT HE HELD UP, EACH GUMMY HAS 100 MILLIGRAMS OF THC IN THEM.

THAT IS A LOT OF THC.

BUT, WHAT HE IS NOT DOING, IS CARVING OUT SEPARATE, YOU KNOW, THE SEVEN SONS BREWING OF THE WORLD, WHERE THEY ARE MAKING THESE THC FILTERS, WHICH ARE SOLD IN TAB ROOMS, AND IN WINE SHOPS, WHERE THE I.D.s ARE CHECKED.

>> YEP.

TERRY?

>> MY UNDERSTANDING IS, THE STATE SENATE, IN APRIL, DID PASS, 33-0, A BILL FROM SENATOR DR.

HUFFMAN AND ALSO SPEAKER MATT HOFFMAN IS NOT A FAN OF THESE PRODUCTS, BUT THERE ARE A FEW NEW MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE WHO WERE KIND OF STANDING UP FOR THESE CONVENIENCE STORES, WHO LIKE THE PROFIT MARGINS ON THESE, BUT THE REAL PROBLEM IS, YOUNG PEOPLE, WHOSE MINDS ARE NOT AS DEVELOPED, MORE VULNERABLE TO THESE KINDS OF PRODUCTS.

SO, I THINK THE LEGISLATURE WILL DO SOMETHING ON IT.

>> BUT, STANLEY, WHY HAVEN'T THEY DONE SOMETHING TO DATE?

THEY TALK ABOUT FURTHER REGULATING MARIJUANA, THEY TALK ABOUT REGULATING HEMP PRODUCTS, BUT YET, YEAR AFTER YEAR GOES BY, AND THEY DON'T DO IT.

YOU HAVE TO THINK THERE ARE SOME POWERFUL INTERESTS IN LAWMAKERS' EARS SAYING, "LEAVE US ALONE."

>> WELL, I THINK WE WILL DEFINITELY SEE SOME ACTION NOW BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR WENT AND DID THE EXECUTIVE ORDER.

YOU KNOW, I APPLAUD THE GOVERNOR FOR TAKING THE STEP.

I HOPE THIS WILL ENCOURAGE THE LEGISLATURE TO ALSO GO THROUGH AND TRY TO MAKE SOME LEGISLATION THAT CAN ACTUALLY IMPACT THIS.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, OHIOANS' KIDS ARE SAFER BECAUSE OF THIS EXECUTIVE ORDER, AND IT DOES NEED REGULATION.

WE OFTEN NEED TO BE THOUGHTFUL ABOUT WHERE THESE ARE SOLD, AS WELL.

>> AND THE POISON CENTER IS SEEING A SIGNIFICANT JUMP AMONG YOUNG PEOPLE, COMING IN THERE WITH PROBLEMS RELATED TO THESE KINDS OF PRODUCTS.

SO, I THINK THE INTEREST IS BUILDING, AND AGAIN, THERE IS A FEW PEOPLE IN THE HOUSE, RELATIVELY NEW MEMBERS, WHO ARE TRYING TO DEFEND THESE CONVENIENCE STORE OPERATORS, BUT THEIR PROFIT MARGINS DO NOT OUTWEIGH THE KIDS' SAFETY.

>> DID THE GOVERNOR OFFER SOME HARD EVIDENCE OF HOW MANY KIDS ARE GOING INTO THE GAS STATION AND BUYING THOSE NERDIES?

>> I DON'T KNOW, IF THERE IS THAT KIND OF EVIDENCE, BECAUSE THE GAS STATIONS DON'T HAVE TO KEEP TRACK OF THAT.

THESE STORES, HOLISTIC WELLNESS STORES, SAY THEY DO CAN'T KEEP TRACK OF THE PEOPLE THEY ARE SELLING TO, BUT FOR THE MOST PART, THERE IS SOME RELATION GOING ON, BUT NOT REALLY.

I THINK ONE OF THE OTHER INTERESTS HERE THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO 0.2, IS THE MARIJUANA INDUSTRY.

THE MARIJUANA INDUSTRY WANTS TO SEE REGULATION OF HEMP, BECAUSE THEY HAD TO GO THROUGH THIS RIGMAROLE TO HAVE --YOU KNOW, THEY HAD TO INSTALL CAMERAS, IT WAS A LOT OF WORK TO THEM TO GET TO THAT POINT AND THEY ARE TAXED MUCH MORE HEAVILY THAN THE HEMP PRODUCTS.

>> AND, IT'S COMPETITION.

>> SURE.

>> IT'S A SMALLER HIGH, BUT YOU STILL GET HIGH WITH THESE >> YEAH, BUT THE HEMP DRINK MANUFACTURERS SAY THAT THEY WANT TO HAVE SOME LEGAL REGULATIONS AND SOME OVERSIGHT, THEY WELCOME THAT, FOR SURE.

YOU KNOW, I THINK IT IS NOT THAT HARD TO SEND A 12-YEAR-OLD SECRET SHOPPER INTO ONE OF THESE GAS STATIONS TO PICK THIS STUFF UP.

>> AND I HAD NO IDEA HOW PROLIFIC THIS IS, BECAUSE I DON'T --I PAY AT THE PUMP, I DON'T GO INTO THE GAS STATION.

I REFUSE TO GO INTO THE GAS STATION AND STEPPED BEHIND THE CIGARETTE BUYERS AND LOTTERY PLAYERS, BUT APPARENTLY THEY ARE EVERYWHERE NOW IN CONVENIENCE STORES, I HAD NO IDEA.

>> I AM AN AVID ENERGY DRINK DRINKER, WHICH IS ANOTHER ONE THAT, WHO KNOWS, COULD BE BANNED.

WHO KNOWS?

BUT, IT HAS BECOME VERY PROLIFIC AND I THINK YOU WILL HEAR FROM BOTH --ALTHOUGH HEMP WAS LEGALIZED IN 2018, THESE PRODUCTS BECAME ESPECIALLY PROMINENT IN OHIO, WHEN CANNABIS WAS LEGALIZED, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT MARKETING AND ADVERTISING REGULATIONS ON SOME OF THEM, AND THEY ADVERTISE THEM AS IT IS BASICALLY CANNABIS.

AND LIKE YOU SAID, I MEAN, SOME OF THESE PRODUCTS CAN CAUSE AN EVEN GREATER HIGH THAN WHAT YOU ARE BUYING AT THE DISPENSARY, BECAUSE AGAIN, THE DISPENSARY IS UNDER STRINGENT REGULATIONS, AND LIKE LAURA SAID, ONE GUMMY MIGHT BE MORE THAN A SERVING SIZE.

>> SO, TO COMPROMISE, TERRY, YOU CAN SELL THESE, BUT THEY HAVE TO BE BEHIND THE COUNTER?

SOME STORES, EVERYTHING IS LOCKED UP NOW, EVEN UNDERWEAR IN SOME STORES.

>> WELL, THERE ARE SOME LEGISLATORS, INCLUDING SPEAKER HUFFMAN, WHO IS MUCH MORE OF AN ABSOLUTIST IN WANTING TO TIGHTEN THINGS DOWN, SO WE WILL SEE HOW IT WORKS OUT, BUT THE FACT IS THE SENATE HAS ALREADY DONE SOMETHING TELLS YOU THAT FOLKS ARE THERE, IT'S JUST A MATTER OF OVERCOMING A HANDFUL OF THESE MEMBERS, RELATIVELY NEW, WHO ARE HEARING FROM SOME LOCAL SELLERS IN THEIR DISTRICT THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO LOSE THE PROFIT MARGIN.

>> AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE ISSUE IS CONTINUING TO BE THAT IT IS JUST TOO ACCESSIBLE.

AND ALSO, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THERE IS AN AGE REQUIREMENT TO IT, BECAUSE CURRENTLY, THERE IS NOT EVEN THAT.

HOW CAN WE MAKE SURE WE ARE REGULATING THIS IS THAT KIDS DO NOT GET IMPACTED BY IT?

CONTINUES TO FUEL SPECULATION THAT HE'S PLANNING A POLITICAL COMEBACK.

RYAN POSTED TO SOCIAL MEDIA, A SELFIE OF HIM WITH POLITICAL STRATEGISTS OUTSIDE A RESTAURANT IN DUBLIN.

THE TWEET SAID, "GREAT DINNER LAST NIGHT WITH SOME OF THE BEST POLITICAL STRATEGISTS IN AMERICA.

LOTS OF FUN AHEAD."

RYAN STILL HAS NOT MADE A DECISION ON A RUN FOR GOVERNOR.

AMY ACTON WANTS TO KNOW.

SHE'S THE ONLY MAJOR DEMOCRAT IN THE RACE, RIGHT NOW.

STANLEY GATES, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING ON, HERE?

IS HE REALLY CONSIDERING GETTING IN THE RACE, OR JUST STRINGING US ALONG?

WHAT'S GOING ON?

>> SO, I'M A SPORTS FAN, WE LIKE TO CALL THIS A "PUMP FAKE."

>> IS A FORMER QUARTERBACK.

>> IS ALSO A FORMER QUARTERBACK, SO MAYBE HE IS GOING TO DO A RUN WE ARE NOT EXPECTING, BUT I DON'T EXPECT HIM TO TAKE THIS DECISION HASTILY.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, REPUBLICANS HAVE THEIR GUY, AT THIS POINT, HE HAD THE POSTED DEADLINE OF SEPTEMBER 30th AND THAT IS 10 DAYS BEFORE NOW, SO IT IS TIME TO ACT.

I THINK NOW, AT THE END OF THE GOING TO COME OUT AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE ARE PREPARED FOR IT, TOO.

>> ALL RIGHT, AND IF HE WAS REALLY GOING TO RUN, HE WOULD WANT TO GET IN IT SOONER BECAUSE HE HAS TO RAISE A LOT OF MONEY, BOTH FOR A PRIMARY, AND FOR THE GENERAL ELECTION.

SO, I THINK HE IS JUST STRINGING ALONG AND HE HAS HAD A LONG HISTORY, IN HIS 20 PLUS YEARS OF CONGRESS IN FAKING INTEREST OF RUNNING STATEWIDE, THEN FOLDING HIS CARDS.

SO, IT'S KIND OF NORMAL FOR TIM RYAN.

>> IN THE PAST, THOUGH, HE WAS A CONGRESSMAN.

SO, FOR HIM TO RUN STATEWIDE, LIKE FOR GOVERNOR --WHICH WAS TALKED ABOUT A LOT --HE WOULD BASICALLY HAVE TO GIVE UP HIS SEAT AND WAS HIS OFFICE, BUT NOW, HE DOESN'T HAVE TO DO THAT.

HE HAS A LAW CAREER AND CONSULTING CAREER, APPARENTLY, THAT IS LUCRATIVE, FROM WHAT WE UNDERSTAND.

>> RIGHT, I THINK FOR HIS 20 YEARS IN CONGRESS, HIS SEAT WAS SAFE, AND HE TOYED WITH THE IDEA OF RUNNING STATEWIDE, BUT NEVER PULLED THE TRIGGER ON THAT, THEN HIS SEAT WAS NO LONGER SAFE, SO THAT IS WHEN WE SAW HIM RUN FOR U.S.

SENATE.

I THINK IT IS TIME FOR TIM RYAN TO EITHER PUT UP OR SHUT UP, BECAUSE, LIKE STANLEY SAYS, IF THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO HAVE A PRIMARY, THEY NEED TO GET GOING ON IT.

>> AND I KNOW SUPPORTERS OF AMY ACTON ARE FRUSTRATED, THEY WANT HIM TO MAKE A DECISION.

THEY WANT HIM TO STAY OUT, BUT THEY WANT HIM TO MAKE A DECISION SO SHE CAN RAISE MONEY AND SOLIDIFY HER SUPPORT.

>> SURE, OF COURSE.

AND, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT A BIT OF A "WILL HE, WON'T HE" SITUATION WITH SHERROD BROWN THAT SAYS HE IS RUNNING FOR SENATOR, WILL HE, WON'T HE RUN FOR GOVERNOR?

WILL HE, WON'T HE RUN FOR SENATE?

SO, DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN DOING WITH THAT STATEWIDE, AND LIKE STANLEY SAID, REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN SHOWING WHAT THEY CALL A TICKET OF UNITY, THEY HAVE BASICALLY SQUASHED ANY IDEA OF A PRIMARY AND THERE WERE POTENTIAL PRIMARY CANDIDATES IN, I MEAN, ATTORNEY GENERAL DECLARED HE WAS RUNNING AND THEN DROPPED OUT, AND THEN WE KIND OF GIVE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR JIM TRUSSELL, IT WASN'T EVEN REALLY --IT WASN'T THAT HE WAS NOT GIVEN THE CHANCE, HE COULD HAVE JUMPED IN, BUT THERE WASN'T TIME FOR THAT BECAUSE PARTY BEHIND HIM.

>> SPEAKING OF UNIT D, I HAVE TO IMAGINE THAT THERE ARE TALKS HAPPENING BETWEEN THE ACTON CAMP AND TIM RYAN CAMP IF HE IS SERIOUS ABOUT RUNNING, ABOUT TEAMING UP, ONE OF THEM BEING GOVERNOR, ONE OF THEM BEING LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, DO YOU THINK RYAN WOULD NOT SETTLE FOR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR?

>> NO, I DON'T THINK TIM RYAN WOULD SETTLE FOR BECOMING LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, I THINK THAT IS A LONG SHOT.

AGAIN, THE STAKES ARE TOO HIGH.

AT THIS POINT, WE NEED TO BE MORE ALIGNED, BUT THIS IS ALSO THE CHALLENGE A LOT OF FOLKS CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

THERE IS NO ALIGNMENT.

REPUBLICAN PARTY CONTINUES TO SHOW THEY ARE ALIGNED AND DEMOCRATS SEEM TO CONTINUE TO FOLLOW AND NOT SHOW UP FOR THE MOMENT.

>> AND THIS SINKHOLE OF MONEY AND HE IS RIGHT NOW MAKING A LOT OF MONEY, REPRESENTING NATURAL GAS AND CRYPTO, BOTH OF WHICH WOULD NOT PLAY WELL IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY.

BUT, DOES HE WANT TO GIVE THAT UP, WHEN HE IS NOW LIVING IN ALBANY, VERSUS THAT DUBLIN AREA, ENJOYING THE GOOD LIFE?

I THINK HE WANTS TO FOCUS ON HIS FAMILY AND SON.

>> STANLEY, YOU MAKE A POINT ABOUT HOW HE IS IN THE NATURAL MODERATE RACE WHEN HE RAN AGAINST J.D.

VANCE, SAYING HE WAS A "TRUMPET DEMOCRAT" BASICALLY.

THAT MAY NOT WORK IN A PRIMARY, BUT THAT IS THE ONLY WAY YOU WILL BE ELECTED IN OHIO AS A DEMOCRAT IN THE GENERAL, RIGHT?

>> YEP, I COMPLETELY AGREE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE NOW NEED TO DECIDE, WHAT ARE THE VALUES OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY?

I THINK IT CONTINUES TO BE A CONVERSATION THAT I THINK OHIO DEMOCRATIC PARTY, TIM RYAN AND OTHERS NEED TO CONTINUE TO HAVE.

>> WHO HAS A BETTER CHANCE OF BEATING VIVEK RAMASWAMY?

THE NEWCOMER, AMY ACTON?

A LOT OF GOODWILL, SOME BAGGAGE WITH COVID.

OR, TIM RYAN, WHO HAS RUN STATEWIDE?

>> WELL, CAN EITHER ONE OF THEM REALLY RAISE THE MONEY TO BE COMPETITIVE?

AND ALSO, WHAT BAGGAGE DOES EACH OF THEM HAVE?

IF SO, IT COULD BE AN INTERESTING RACE, BUT IF YOU CAN'T RAISE THE MONEY, YOU WILL BE A DIFFERENT VERSION OF ROB BURCH, FOR OLD PEOPLE LIKE ME, OR NAN WHALEY.

>>> ALL RIGHT.

NOTHING GETS VIEWERS TO TURN THE CHANNEL FASTER THAN A DISCUSSION ABOUT INSIDE MILLAGE.

BUT, WHAT IF I TOLD YOU THAT INSIDE MILLAGE KEEPS YOUR PROPERTY TAXES HIGH?

WELL, NOW, WE HAVE YOUR THE HOUSE, THIS WEEK, PASSED A BILL THAT CHANGES HOW PROPERTY TAX BILLS ARE CALCULATED, WHEN HOME VALUES RISE.

IT ALSO PASSED A BILL THAT WOULD ALLOW COUNTY COMMISSIONERS TO ROLL BACK PROPERTY TAX INCREASES, IF THE TAXING AGENCY IS COLLECTING TOO MUCH MONEY.

BOTH BILLS GO TO SENATE.

IT'S ALL PART OF A CONCERTED EFFORT TO CUT, OR AT LEAST LIMIT, PROPERTY TAXES.

A PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO BAN PROPERTY TAXES COMPLETELY COULD BE ON NEXT NOVEMBER'S BALLOT.

LAURA BISCHOFF, BOTTOM LINE QUESTION PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW, WILL THIS LOWER MY PROPERTY TAX BILL IF I AM A HOMEOWNER?

AND SCHOOL OFFICIALS AND OTHERS WANT TO KNOW, IS THIS GOING TO KEEP ME FROM GETTING A GOVERNMENT I.D.?

>> MAYBE?

TBD.

IT ALSO DEPENDS, THERE ARE TWO BILLS, ONE WAS LIKE, 240 DISTRICTS IN ONE MANNER, ANOTHER WOULD AFFECT A LARGER PORTION OF THEM AND IT WOULD ALSO DEPEND ON WHAT YOUR COUNTY COMMISSION BUDGET COMMITTEES END UP DOING.

IS A COMPREHENSIVE FIX.

AND I HAVE BEEN COVERING THE LEGISLATURE SINCE 2001.

AND BACK WHEN I FIRST ARRIVED IN COLUMBUS, SCHOOL FUNDING WAS A HOT AND HEAVY TOPIC BACK THEN AND IT HAS REMAINED SO.

>> IS THERE A COMPREHENSIVE FIX, SARAH?

I MEAN, IT'S SO COMPLICATED.

>> I MEAN, I THINK THAT THERE ARE PROBABLY IDEAS OF A COMPREHENSIVE FIX, THAT MAY BE DIFFERENT LAWMAKERS LOOK AT IT DIFFERENTLY, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT IS ON THE TABLE, RIGHT NOW.

I THINK THAT LAWMAKERS KIND OF NOD AT THE EDGES AND THE BUDGET, AND THE BILLS THAT WERE PASSED EARLIER THIS WEEK.

THOSE WERE REPLICATIVE OF TWO PIECES THAT DeWINE VETOED IN JANUARY.

YOU KNOW, SENATE PRESIDENT RON McAULEY HAS TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT HE FEELS LIKE THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN, BUT NONE OF THIS IS PROVIDING IMMEDIATE, DIRECT TAX RELIEF, WHICH IS WHAT THE DEMOCRATS SAY THEY WANT TO DO.

AND OF COURSE, THEY ARE IN THE SUPER MINORITY IN THE LEGISLATURE.

BUT, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW, IT IS TOUGH TO SAY.

AND DOES THAT STOP THE TRAIN THAT IS THIS, YOU KNOW, IDEA OF GETTING RID OF PROPERTY TAXES?

>> A KEY IMPORTANT NUMBER IS $20 BILLION --NOT MILLION -- $20 BILLION.

AND UNLESS THE STATE OF OHIO CAN WIN A LOTTERY TICKET, $20 BILLION EVERY YEAR TO MAKE UP FOR THE MONEY, AN EASY SOLUTION IS NOT THERE.

AND ALSO, IF YOU REMEMBER A FEW WEEKS BACK ON YOUR SHOW, YOU MADE THE POINT OF YOUR TAX BILL, AND FRANK, 14 DIFFERENT SUBDIVISIONS HERE DRAWING OUT MONEY, THERE ARE SO MANY LEVEES OVER SO MANY YEARS THAT HAVE BEEN PASSED.

THAT IS PROBABLE --PART OF THE PROBLEM.

AND IT REALLY GOES BACK TO THE STATE HEIGHTS WITH JIM RICE AND TIM RHODES WERE THERE IN THE '60s AND '70s, MAINLY.

LOCAL GOVERNMENT SAID, WE NEED MORE MONEY FOR CHILDREN'S SERVICES, FOR MENTAL HEALTH.

TAXES, SALES TAX OR INCOME TAX, THEY SAID, WE WILL GIVE LOCAL UNITS OF GOVERNMENT MORE FLEXIBILITY.

WELL, NOW THE BILL HAS COME DUE.

>> WELL, MEANWHILE, PROPERTY OWNERS ARE SEEING THE TAX BILLS REALLY GO UP HIGH, BECAUSE HOME VALUES ARE INCREASING, STANLEY.

AND THEY DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT IS COMP LOCATED, RIGHT?

>> I THINK THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE HEARING RIGHT NOW, AND THAT IS WHERE THIS CONVERSATION CONTINUES TO HAPPEN.

THE GOVERNOR HAS HAD HIS WORK GROUP COME OUT BUT I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, BOTTOM LINE, FOR RESIDENTS OF OHIO, "I JUST WANT SOME KIND OF BREAK."

AND WE JUST HAVE TO FIGURE THAT OUT.

AS TERRY MENTIONED, WE GOT IN THIS SITUATION BECAUSE THE STATE AND POST THOSE THINGS AND SCHOOLS HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO BE ABLE TO RAISE FUNDS.

AND NOW, WE ARE IN THIS CASE WHERE THEY HAVE TO CONTINUE TO DO THIS, JUST TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THEMSELVES IN THE MIDST OF SCHOOL FUNDING CUTS, TOO.

AND SO, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE ALSO SUPPORTING THE KIDS AND ALSO THE SOCIAL SERVICES THAT WE HAVE AVAILABLE, TOO.

>> THIS WILL BE --A CONFERENCE OF PLAN WOULD BE A HARD THING TO PASS, BUT WHAT WE HAVE SEEN, WE HAVE SEEN MARIJUANA, LAWMAKERS SIT ON THEIR HANDS UNTIL THE VOTERS HAD A CHANCE TO WEIGH IN, AND THEN THEY WERE FORCED TO ADOPT WHAT THE VOTERS WANTED.

IS THAT GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN?

>> I MEAN, THAT'S THE RISK.

AND IF WE DO AWAY WITH PROPERTY TAXES, VIA A BALLOT ISSUE, THAT IS LIKE, HEY, DO YOU WANT A THREE DAY WEEKEND?

THAT SOUNDS GREAT, RIGHT?

I THINK IT SOUNDS VERY APPEALING AND IF IT GETS ON THE BALLOT, IT COULD ACTUALLY PASS.

AND THEN, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A BIG, GIANT MESS.

AND YOU ARE CORRECT, GOING TO THE BALLOT, WINDOWS LAWMAKERS ARE HESITANT TO ACT ON A CONTROVERSIAL OR A TOUGH ISSUE, OFTEN TIMES, IT IS THE VOTERS WHO SAY, "WE WANT THIS."

>> I WILL SAY, THIS TIME, THOUGH, IF IT DOES MAKE IT TO THE BALLOT YOU WILL SEE THE STRANGEST COALITION OF PEOPLE AGAINST THIS.

IT IS GOING TO BE A VERY WIDE COALITION, BECAUSE SCHOOLS ARE GOING TO BE AGAINST THIS, POLICE DEPARTMENTS ARE GOING TO BE AGAINST THIS.

LIKE, IT'S --THIS WIDE COALITION THAT IS LIKE, "WE GET OUR FUNDS FROM PROPERTY TAXES," AND, LAWMAKERS ARE ALSO FREAKING OUT BECAUSE THERE HAS BEEN THIS LONG, CONCERTED EFFORT TO GET RID OF THE INCOME TAX, AND THAT IS WHAT VIVEK RAMASWAMY IS RUNNING HIS CAMPAIGN ON.

GOVERNOR DeWINE DOES NOT SEEM LIKE HE WANTS TO GET RID OF THE INCOME TAX.

ALTHOUGH, THIS YEAR, YOU CANNOT ELIMINATE ALL TAXES AND STILL HAVE GOVERNMENT SERVICES.

>> WHOEVER IS RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR IS GOING TO TAKE A STAND ON THIS, IF IT GETS ON THE BALLOT.

IF IT GETS ON THE BALLOT, IT WILL BE ON THE BALLOT WITH THEIR NAMES AND THEY WILL HAVE TO SAY, DO THEY SUPPORT IT OR NOT.

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK IT HAS A GOOD CHANCE OF GETTING ON THE BALLOT.

I THINK WE WILL HEAR A LOT MORE OF IT OVER THE NEXT YEAR.

IT IS NOT GOING AWAY.

I DO THINK, DEFINITELY, THE CANDIDATES FOR GOVERNOR ARE GOING TO HAVE A STRONG POSITION ON THIS.

AGAIN, AT THE END OF THE DAY, OHIOANS WANT TO KNOW, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO PROTECT ME AND MAKE SURE I HAVE RELIEF FOR THE RISING PROPERTY TAXES I AM PAYING?

>>> CRITICS AND THE OHIO SUPREME COURT HAVE SAID PROPERTY TAXES ARE NOT THE PROPERTY TAXES ARE BASED ON HOME VALUE.

THE RICHER THE HOMES, THE HIGHER THE TAXES, THE BETTER THE SCHOOLS.

STUDENTS IN POORER HOMES, IN POORER DISTRICTS, TEND TO HAVE WEAKER SCHOOLS.

IS THERE A BETTER WAY -- ANOTHER TYPE OF TAXES --TO PAY FOR SCHOOLS?

WESTERVILLE, THIS FALL, ASKS VOTERS TO APPROVE AN INCOME TAX HIKE TO HELP PAY FOR SCHOOLS.

OFFICIALS SAY THE INCOME TAX WOULD DIVERSIFY FUNDING SOURCES.

THE DISTRICT WOULD NOT TAX RETIREMENT EARNINGS, AND ONLY RESIDENTS WOULD PAY THE INCREASE TO THEIR INCOME TAXES --NOT PEOPLE WHO WORK IN WESTERVILLE, BUT LIVE ELSEWHERE.

CASEY?

>> WELL, THE LAW, AS YOU MENTIONED, IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT ON SCHOOL INCOME TAXES, BECAUSE BUSINESSES DON'T PAY THOSE.

PEOPLE WHO LIVE OUTSIDE THE MUNICIPALITY, BUT WORK THERE, DON'T PAY IT.

AND ALSO, THE HISTORY OF OHIO WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, THE SCHOOL INCOME TAXES HAVE DONE BETTER IN RURAL AREAS WHERE FARMERS SEE THE TRADE-OFF AND BENEFIT, ACCORDINGLY.

IN SUBURBAN TYPE AREAS, LIKE WESTERN OHIO, I THINK IT WILL BE UPHILL, BECAUSE SUDDENLY, ALSO, A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE READY WILL DISCOVER THEY ARE NOT --ARE INDIRECTLY PAYING PROPERTY TAX, BUT SUDDENLY, IF YOU ARE MAKING $50,000, $60,000, YOU MIGHT HAVE AN EXTRA $500- $700 YOU HAVE TO PAY.

AND ALSO, FOR A LOT OF HOME OWNING PEOPLE, TWO PEOPLE WORKING, IT ADDS UP TO OVER $1000 A YEAR THEY WOULD HAVE TO PAY IN INCOME TAX.

SO, I THINK THERE IS A REAL QUESTION OF WHETHER IT WILL SELL.

>> IS THAT FAIR, THOUGH?

PUTTING ALL THE BURDEN ON PROPERTY TAXES?

I KNOW PART OF THE RENT GOES TO THE PROPERTY TAXES THAT THE LANDLORD PAYS, BUT STILL.

>> TO YOUR POINT, THOUGH, I THINK A CONVERSATION NEEDS TO BE HAD AND I THINK THE STATE HAS HANDCUFFED A LOT OF CITIES AND EVEN SCHOOL DISTRICTS TO BE ABLE TO DIVERSIFY THEIR REVENUE.

I WENT TO SCHOOL IN D.C.

AT HOWARD UNIVERSITY, AND STILL, TO THIS DAY, I JUST WENT BACK TO D.C.

TWO WEEKS AGO AND THEY BAGS SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE ARE THINKING OF VERY NEW IDEAS FOR CITIES TO BE ABLE TO GENERATE THIS REVENUE, IF WE ARE GOING TO BE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT PROPERTY TAXES AND ALSO HOW IT AFFECTS SCHOOLS, AS WELL.

>> AS YOU KNOW, THEY ASKED FOR A PROPERTY TAX LAST YEAR, AND IT FAILS.

IS THIS JUST A WAY TO GET THE MONEY TO THE DOOR?

>> WELL, THEY ARE TRYING.

BUT, REMEMBER, THIS SCHOOL INCOME TAX IS APPEALING TO SENIORS BECAUSE SOCIAL SECURITY INCOME IS NOT TAXED, BUT THEN AGAIN, OTHER PEOPLE, INCLUDING RENTERS AND OTHERS, ARE GOING TO SAY, "WAIT A MINUTE, WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO PAY SO MUCH IF THEY ARE NOT GOING TO PAY?"

>> WELL, WHEN YOU LOOK AT, WHEN WE PAY PROPERTY TAXES, IT IS KIND OF HIDDEN.

IF YOU HAVE A MORTGAGE, IT IS HIDDEN IN YOUR MORTGAGE BILL.

VERY LITTLE PEOPLE LOOK TO SEE HOW MUCH GOES INTO TAXES, INTO PRINCIPLE, INTO HOME INSURANCE, INTO PROPERTY TAX.

BUT, WHEN YOU RETIRE AND PAY OFF YOUR MORTGAGE, AND GET YOUR BILL, THAT IS WHEN YOU REALLY SEE WHAT YOUR PROPERTY TAX BILL IS.

>> TELL ME ABOUT IT.

>> YEAH.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> I MEAN, IT IS A SUBSTANTIAL CHUNK OF IT.

AND, I THINK ONE OF THE SYMPATHETIC ARGUMENTS FOR PROPERTY TAX REFORM IS THE PERSON WHO HAS BEEN LIVING IN THEIR HOUSE FOR 25, 35, 45 YEARS, AND NOW THEY ARE PRICED OUT OF THEIR LONG-TERM HOME BECAUSE THE PROPERTY TAX BILL KEEPS CLIMBING.

>> SO, THE INCOME TAXES, THEY ARE KIND OF HITTING.

IF IT GOES UP, LIKE IN WESTERVILLE, IT WOULD BE THREE QUARTERS OF 1%.

SO, YOU MIGHT BE ASKING, IF YOU ARE SEEING FEWER DOLLARS IN YOUR PAYCHECK EVERY TWO WEEKS OR EVERY MONTH, BUT YOU WILL GET USED TO IT, RIGHT?

>> I MEAN, I GUESS IT IS WHAT THE VOTERS CAN STOMACH AT THIS POINT, BECAUSE YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE DIFFERENT TAX PAYING GROUPS THAT ARE AFFECTED BY DIFFERENT TYPES OF TAXES, BUT I THINK, GENERALLY, YOU KNOW, THESE SCHOOLS ARE GOING TO THE BALLOT MORE AND MORE OFTEN, AND THESE LEVIES ARE FAILING, MORE AND MORE OFTEN.

SO, I DON'T KNOW THAT THE TYPE OF TAX --I DO THINK THERE IS SOME DIFFERENTIATION, BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT SCHOOLS KEEP GOING BACK TO VOTERS AND ASKING FOR MORE MONEY, OUT OF A NEED OR A WANT, AND THAT IS WHERE VOTERS ARE AT.

>> AND IN WESTERVILLE, A TYPICAL COUPLE, EACH MAKING $75,000 PER YEAR LIVING IN THOSE AREAS, THEY WILL PAY NEARLY $100 PER MONTH MORE IN SCHOOL INCOME TAX.

SO, THREE QUARTERS OF 1% SOUNDS SMALL, BUT IT DOES ADD UP BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THAT DISTRICT WHO ARE MIDDLE INCOME MAKING MONEY FROM TWO PERSONS WORKING, BUT IT IS REAL MONEY.

>> AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, VOTERS CONTINUE TO SAY, "WE ARE TIRED OF THE INFLATION, WE ARE TIRED OF THE HIGH COST OF GROCERIES, AND WHAT CAN RELIEF CAN WE GET?"

>> AND THIS IS THEIR CHANCE TO SPEAK OUT AND SAY, "NO."

>> WELL, WE TALKED ABOUT PROPERTY TAXES, THIS IS A WAY TO DIVERSIFY THAT FUNDING SOURCE.

THAT HAS TO BE AN ARGUMENT, RIGHT?

>> WELL, THEN, THEY SAY, "MAKE SOMEBODY ELSE PAY," OR, "TAX THE RICH," OR, "TAX BUSINESSES."

SCHOOL INCOME TAX, BUSINESSES GET AWAY WITH NO MONEY WHEN THEY ARE PAYING PROPERTY TAX.

TOO --ONE PART OF THIS DEBATE THAT PROBABLY SHOULD NOT BE IGNORED IS GOING BACK TO THE STATE LEGISLATURE AND HOW THE STATE LEGISLATURE HANDLES SCHOOL FUNDING, HOW REPUBLICANS WOULD TELL YOU THEY GAVE SCHOOLS THE MOST MONEY THEY HAVE EVER GIVEN THEM, BUT THEY ALSO GAVE A TON OF MONEY TO PRIVATE SCHOOL VOUCHERS, AND THERE HAS BEEN A REAL FOCUS AND IMPORTANCE ON SCHOOL CHOICE, AMONG REPUBLICANS.

AND THAT IS A PRIORITY FOR THEM.

SO, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC SCHOOLS MAY FEEL THAT BLOWBACK, AS WELL.

>>> IF YOU WANT TO REALLY KNOW MORE HOW OHIO PAYS FOR ITS SCHOOLS, WHERE THE MONEY GOES, IF IT'S SPENT WISELY --WOSU HAS A NEW PODCAST, "ALL SIDES UNTANLGLED: THE COST OF LEARNING."

IT'S ON THE 89.7 NPR NEWS ON THE RADIO, MONDAY MORNINGS AT 11:00, AND AVAILABLE WHENEVER YOU GET YOUR PODCASTS.

TIME NOW, FOR OUR FINAL, OFF THE RECORD, PARTING SHOTS.

TERRY, YOU ARE FIRST.

>> MINE IS EASY TODAY.

I AM ENJOYING THAT FORMER VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS IS ABLE TO BE UNFILTERED AND KIND OF REAP THIS HARVEST THAT SHE HAD IMPORTANT CONVERSATION TO CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND WHERE WE ARE.

AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WHILE SOME FOLKS HAVE NOT ENJOYED HER BOOK TOUR, I THINK IT PROVIDES A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE DISCUSSIONS OF WHERE THE PARTY IS.

>> I AM HAPPY TO REPORT, FROM MY EYES, THIS TEAM OFFENSE AND DEFENSE IS FOR REAL.

SATURDAY, TOMORROW, THEY WILL BE IN ILLINOIS, AND WHEN I WAS A COLLEGE STUDENT, WAY BACK IN THE LATE '60s AS PART OF BUCKET AND DIPPER, WAS OVER IN ILLINOIS.

THIS YEAR IS THE 100th ANNIVERSARY AND LET'S HOPE THAT OHIO STATE KEEPS THE YELLOW BUCKET WINS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

SARAH?

>> YOU KNOW, LAURA AND I WERE BOTH AT THE GOVERNOR'S HEMP PRESS CONFERENCE, WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME WITH THE GOVERNOR AND STATEHOUSE REPORTERS.

IT IS ALWAYS MORE FUN WHEN THERE ARE PROPS.

>> AGREED.

I WROTE ABOUT A QUIRKY CASE IN FRONT OF THE OHIO SUPREME COURT THIS WEEK, THAT I THINK COULD IMPACT A LOT OF PEOPLE.

IT HAS TO DO WITH, WHEN A COUPLE SPLITS, WHEN THEY DIVORCE, OR BREAKUP, WHO GETS THE PET?

AND I WAS SURPRISED TO FIND THAT MARVIN, THE CAT, WAS CONSIDERED PROPERTY, RATHER THAN A BELOVED MEMBER OF THE FAMILY IN WHICH A CUSTODY AGREEMENT COULD BE WORKED OUT.

>> MARVIN THE CAT.

>> MARVIN THE CAT.

SO, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THAT SHAKES OUT.

>> OHIO VERSUS MARVIN.

>>> ANYWAY, THIS WEEK, SENATOR BERNIE MORENO WEIGHED IN ON THE BAD BUNNY SUPER BOWL APPEARANCE.

HE'S NOT A FAN.

SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON HAS SUGGESTED LEE GREENWOOD SHOULD SING AT HALF TIME.

I HAVE AN IDEA --BAD BUNNY SHOULD INVITE LEE GREENWOOD UP ON STAGE.

A SURPRISE DUET, WHICH HAPPENS OFTEN AT THE SUPER BOWL.

THEN, BAD BUNNY COULD THEN SING, "I'M PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN," IN SPANISH.

>>> THAT'S "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK.

AND YOU CAN WATCH US ANYTIME ON OUR WEBSITE, WOSU.ORG/COTR, YOUTUBE, AND ALSO ON THE PBS VIDEO APP.

FOR OUR CREW AND OUR PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.