WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD. "

WE HAVE GOOD NEWS AND SOME NOT-SO-GOOD NEWS OVER THE PAST WEEK OR SO.

FIRST, THE GOOD NEWS.

EST SAID THEY ANTICIPATE THE PROJECT WILL CONTINUE TO MOVE AHEAD QUICKLY.

THERE WEREN'T SPECIFIC WARNING SIGNS.

I THINK INTEL HAD A GOOD REPUTATION AT THAT TIME.

>> WHEN INTEL'S STOCK DROPPED SIGNIFICANTLY.

WALL STREET WASN'T BUYING THIS PLAN BY PAT GELSINGER.

>> THE REALITY IS -- >> THIS IS A MANUFACTURING PLANT.

WHATEVER NAME'S ON IT'S STILL GOING TO BE A LOT OF JOBS AND IMPACT.

>> THIS WAS ALWAYS GOING TO BE A BOLD STRATEGY.

IS THIS PART OF THE DEAL WHEN YOU TAKE ON SOMETHING BOLD, THERE ARE GOING TO BE OBSTACLES, IT MAY NOT PAN OUT IT MAY NOT PAN OUT THE WAY YOU PLANNED.

>> SURE.

HIGH REWARD, HIGH RISK.

PRETTY MUCH GOES WITHOUT SAYING.

THE CHIPMAKING BUSINESS, TERRY'S WELL DESCRIBED HOW QUICKLY IT IS CHANGING AND EVOLVING.

IT WAS COMPETITIVE GOING IN.

EVEN BEFORE THE FIRST SHOVEL WAS TURNED.

THERE WERE QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS IS --YOU KNOW, INTEL OUT THERE, AND IT ALLOWS US TO OPEN OUR LAPTOPS, SAYS INTEL, MUST BE GOOD, WILL BE AROUND FOREVER.

THINGS --THE WORLD IS CHANGING SO FAST.

>> I DON'T THINK THEY EVEN MENTIONED A.I.

IN THAT OPENING CEREMONY.

WAS IT EVEN MENTIONED?

THAT'S THE BIG THING NOW.

THE CHIPS --RUN A. I.

THAT WAS ONLY, YOU KNOW, TWO YEARS AGO.

WHO HAS THE --JON HUSTED HAS SHARED THE SPOTLIGHT ON THIS PROJECT, THE DEVELOPMENT ARM OF THE DeWINE ADMINISTRATION.

DeWINE LEAVES OFFICE A COUPLE YEARS, JUDGE HUSTED WANTS TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR.

>> IF I WAS RUNNING IN A PRIMARY AGAINST HIM AND INTEL WAS CIRCLING THE DRAIN, THEN YEAH, I'D MAC A BIG DEAL OUT --MILK A BIG DEAL OUT OF IT, HOW THEY WENT OUT ON A LIMB, YOU COULD PICK APART WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAD THE BACK STOCKS NECESSARY.

IT COULD BE RISKY.

AGAIN, HIGH REWARD IF IT GOES THROUGH AND WE GET 3,000 GOOD-PAYING JOBS, THEN IT'S A GREAT TALKING POINT.

>> I MEAN, GET CREDIT FOR BOLD STRATEGY?

$2 BILLION IN TAXPAYER MONEY, LOCAL AND STATE.

>> YOU GET CREDIT IF IT PANS OUT.

IF IT DOESN'T PAN OUT, LAURA'S RIGHT, YOU'RE SUBJECT TO ATTACK BY POLITICAL OPPONENT AND ALSO BY THE PRESS SAYING WHAT WENT WRONG.

WHY DIDN'T YOU HAVE THE PROTECTIONS BUILT IN.

>> THERE ARE THE CLAW-BACKS THERE THAT THEY ONLY GET CERTAIN MONEY UPON ACHIEVING CERTAIN THINGS.

SO I THINK THEY'VE BUILT A LOT OF THAT IN.

IT'S STILL HIGH RISK.

AGAIN, BECAUSE IT'S MANUFACTURING, THEY WEREN'T MOVING THE WHOLE COMPANY TO OHIO.

THEY WERE BUILDING A MANUFACTURING PLANT.

THAT'S STILL GOING TO HAPPEN.

MAYBE A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

BUT IT'S STILL GOING TO BE BIG.

IT'S A MATTER OF HOW BIG.

>> I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE THE EIGHT TO TEN PLANTS THEY HOPED FOR.

THAT SEEMS DOUBTFUL AT THIS POINT.

>> YEAH, THINGS COULD CHANGE BACK.

YOU KNOW, I -- IT'S HARD TO PREDICT.

THAT'S WHY THIS IS THE ECONOMIC GAME IS, YOU KNOW, SO COMPETITIVE.

AND IT'S -- SO UNCERTAIN.

THE TIMETABLE IS ALSO --WHEN THIS WAS INITIALLY ANNOUNCED, SOME WERE EVEN THROWING OUT 2025, LATE 2025, THIS WILL BE UP AND OPERATIONAL.

NOW WE'RE SAYING MAYBE '28, MAYBE '30.

>> THE QUESTION IS DO THE CLAW-BACKS APPLY IF SOME OTHER COMPANY BUYS OUT, YOU KNOW, INTEL.

>> WELL, DESPITE OR PERHAPS BECAUSE OF THE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN VIDEO ADVERTISING, MANY OHIO VOTERS WERE NOT REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS YEAR'S ELECTIONS.

LOT OF THEM STAYED HOME.

FINAL NUMBERS FROM SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICED THIS YEAR SAW 123,000 FEWER VOTERS THAN THE LAST PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

TURNOUT WAS DOWN IN MOST OHIO COUNTIES BUT DOWN SHARPLY IN URBAN COUNTIES.

FEWER VOTES IN -- FEWER VOTERS IN CLEVELAND, COLUMBUS, AND CINCINNATI.

WIDENED PRESIDENT-ELECT TRUMP'S VICTORY AND DOOMED SHERROD BROWN'S RE-ELECTION BID.

LOOKING AT THE TURNOUT RESULTS FROM OHIO, PENNSYLVANIA, MICHIGAN.

DEMOCRATS JUST DID NOT SHOW UP IN THE STATES.

>> AND PARTICULARLY THE CASE IN OHIO.

AND OHIO YOU CAN PARTLY EXPLAIN BY SAYING DEMOCRATS AND THE KAMALA HARRIS CAMPAIGN BASICALLY WROTE OFF OHIO.

WE WERE NOT ONE OF THE SWING STATES.

EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T THINK CAMPAIGNS HAVE A MASSIVE IMPACT, IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE WHEN CANDIDATE SHOW UP IN THE STATE AND THEY GET LOCAL NEWSPAPER COVERAGE.

IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE WHEN YOU, IN FACT, HAVE MASSIVE ADVERTISING ON BEHALF OF A CANDIDATE.

I THINK THE TOP OF THE TICKET WAS NOT A STIMULUS IN OHIO FOR DEMOCRATS TO COME OUT.

THE FACT IS, AS YOU SAY, THE TURNOUT WENT DOWN.

THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THIS ELECTION IS THE OVERALL INTERPRETATION THAT PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO GIVE TO IT.

I THINK OHIO, YOU CAN GENUINELY SAY, BECAME A REDDER STATE IN TERMS OF WHAT REPUBLICANS HAD WON.

EVEN THOUGH THEY LOST A SEAT OR TWO IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WHATEVER.

>> SO DID DONALD TRUMP WIN THIS ELECTION NATIONALLY WITH THESE TURNOUT NUMBERS, OR DID THE DEMOCRATS LOSE IT?

>> I THINK PRETTY CLEARLY HARRIS WAS NOT OBAMA OR CLINTON AND BEING ABLE TO EXCITE THOSE YOUNGER AND URBAN.

SO THAT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM.

BUT TURNOUT WAS A BIG FACTOR.

AND CLEARLY HER CAMPAIGN DIDN'T SPEAK TO SOME OF THE ISSUES THE WAY THEY SHOULD HAVE.

ONE INTERESTING STATISTIC IS HARRIS ONLY GOT 60% OF THE VOTE AND ONLY TWO OF OHIO'S 88 COUNTIES.

IN LUCAS COUNTY, TRUMP NEARLY WON LUCAS COUNTY WHERE CLEVELAND'S AT WHICH IS SHOCKING.

AND TRUMP GOT 60% OR MORE IN 27 OF THE 88 COUNTIES.

SO THERE'S SOME INTERESTING DATA THAT PEOPLE WANT TO STUDY AND THINK ABOUT.

>> LAURA, 72% TURNOUT IS STILL PRETTY GOOD.

THAT'S GOOD TURNOUT, RIGHT?

>> LOWER THAN THE 74% THAT WE HAD IN THE 2020.

YOU KNOW, I HAD A DISCUSSION WITH LIZ WALTERS, CHAIR OF THE OHIO DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

SHE SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, FOR THE DEMOCRATS TO MAKE OHIO EVEN A LITTLE BIT MORE PURPLE, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A BLUE STATE, THAT THEY HAD TO JUICE THE TURNOUT IN THE URBAN AREAS, DO WELL IN THE SUBURBAN AREAS, AND NOT GET THEIR BUTTS KICKED IN THE RURAL AREAS.

AND NONE OF THAT HAPPENED IN NOVEMBER.

>> SO WHAT'S IT GOING TO TAKE?

START WITH YOU, YL, TO JUICE THE NUMBERS?

>> A GREAT QUESTION.

WE TALK ABOUT IT CHANGING, POLITICAL CANDIDATES GAVE OHIO HAS CHANGED INCREDIBLY.

MAYBE SOME OF YOU HAVE SEEN THE MAPS THAT CAME OUT OF SHERROD BROWN'S FIRST VICTORY OVER NOW-GOVERNOR MIKE DeWINE IN 2006.

YOU TAKE I-77 DOWN THE EASTERN SIDE OF THE STATE, HE WON EVERYTHING EAST OF I-77.

THAT WAS IN 2006.

FAST FORWARD TO THIS YEAR, HE WON NOTHING EAST OF I-77 EXCEPT FOR THE MIDDLE PORTIONS OF SUMMIT AND CUYAHOGA COUNTIES THAT ARE EAST OF I-77.

>> A GENERATION AGO, 2006, A LONG TIME.

BUT STILL SHOWS THE CHANGE IN THE STATE, AS YOU SAID.

WE'RE A RED STATE NOW.

>> WE ARE.

AND ONE OTHER THING ABOUT THIS ELECTION IN OHIO, I THINK IT SHOWED THE IMPORTANCE OF A TRUMP ENDORSEMENT.

I WAS TRYING TO ASK THE CAMPAIGNS PRIVATELY WHAT ARE YOUR PRIVATELY POLLS SHOWING.

SHERROD BROWN I THINK WAS DOING REASONABLY WELL, HIS MARGIN WAS DECLINING BECAUSE OF THOSE DISGUSTING TRANSGENDER COMMERCIALS.

BUT IN FACT, FINALLY TO GET MARINO OVER THE TOP THEY HAD TO HAVE COMMERCIALS --DONALD TRUMP ENDORSES BERNIE MORENO.

I THINK THAT MADE A DIFFERENCE.

I THINK DONALD TRUMP MADE A DIFFERENCE IN ISSUE ONE.

>> BUT TRUMP GOT FEWER VOTES IN OHIO THAN HE DID FOUR YEARS AGO.

>> TURNOUT IN GENERAL WAS NOT QUITE AS HIGH.

>> THE DEMOCRATS DIDN'T SHOW UP -- >> RIGHT.

BUT THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THERE WAS A HOPE THAT HARRIS WOULD EXCITE THOSE YOUNGER MINORITY AND URBAN.

AND THE REALITY SHE DIDN'T.

>> YOU DON'T RUN A CAMPAIGN IN A STATE AT THE GRASSROOTS STATEWIDE MEDIA, ALL THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE NOT JUST GOING TO SHOW UP.

I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE TURNOUT NUMBERS IN PENNSYLVANIA AND MICHIGAN, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE GREAT.

BUT THEY'RE GOING TO BE BETTER THAN IN OHIO.

>> AND THE DEMOCRAT PARTY HAS A PROBLEM, WHAT'S HAPPENED IN '22.

WHEN YOU HAVE NAN WHALY THAT NOBODY HEARD OF, DIDN'T RUN A CAMPAIGN THAT --THE DEMOCRATS DON'T HAVE A BENCH.

>> SPEAKING NATIONALLY, WOULD AN ANGRIER DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE HAVE BEEN A BETTER CHOICE?

PEOPLE WERE PRETTY MAD ABOUT INFLATION, HOUSING PRICES, AND, YOU KNOW, WARS IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND WAR IN UKRAINE.

I DON'T THINK BERNIE SANDERS WOULD HAVE BEEN THAT PERSON BUT A BERNIE SANDERS- LIKE CANDIDATE.

WHO'S ANGRY, WHOSE VOICE THE -- >> I THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE HIT THE ECONOMY HARDER AND HIT THAT MESSAGE.

I THINK THE REPUBLICANS EFFECTIVELY DID SO.

AND I THINK THAT KAMALA HARRIS WAS SO CLOSELY TIED TO JOE BIDEN AND PEOPLE WERE FRUSTRATED WITH HIS ADMINISTRATION.

>> SHE WAS TRYING TO DO A MESSAGE OF HOPE.

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, THERE WAS THAT EARLY MEDIA APPEARANCE WHERE SHE SAID SHE WOULDN'T DO ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN JOE BIDEN DID.

THAN JOE BIDEN DID.

MY GOODNESS, HOW ABOUT AFGHANISTAN AND THE WITHDRAWAL -- >> PICK ONE.

>> GOING TO SAY.

YOU WANT TO BE LOYAL TO THE BOSS, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND IT'S LIKE, COME ON NOW.

AND YOU KNOW, SHE OK'D --I DON'T KNOW.

SEEMED LIKE THERE WAS 100 DIFFERENT ANSWERS SHE COULD HAVE GIVEN THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER THAN THAT.

>> WOULD HAVE ORGANIZED THE EASTER EGG ROLL DIFFERENTLY.

>> PARDON FREE TURKEYS INSTEAD OF --THREE TURKEYS INSTEAD OF TWO TURKEYS.

>> THE STRONG AS TRUMP'S PERFORMANCE WAS, THE FACT THAT HE GOT LESS THAN 50% OF THE VOTE.

IT TURNS OUT THE DEMOCRATS ON NET GAINED TWO SEATS IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

SO THIS IS NOT A MANDATE ELECTION.

>> A CLEAR VICTORY.

>> A CLEAR --LANDSLIDE.

>> IN SOME WAYS WHEN YOU LOOKED AT THE EXIT POLLS AND ASKED AMERICANS ABOUT THE STATE OF THE ECONOMY, YOU KNOW, BY THE 2-1 MARGIN THEY SAID IT WAS BAD OR --KIND OF BAD.

AND YOU ASKED THEM ABOUT ARE YOU BETTER OFF, AND TWO TO ONE THEY'RE WORSE OFF.

SO ALL OF THESE INDICATORS WHICH ARE CLASSIC PRESIDENTIAL PREDICTION INDICATORS WOULD SAY OH, MY GOD, IT'S GOING TO BE A BAD YEAR FOR THE DEMOCRATS BECAUSE KAMALA'S THE CANDIDATE OF THE INCUMBENT PARTY.

AND YOU HAVE PREDICTED BASED UPON THESE QUESTIONS REPUBLICANS WOULD HAVE WON 60-40, 55-45, AND MAY WON 49.

9 TO -- >> THE MAJORITY.

>> NO, HE DIDN'T GET AT -- >> HE DID WIN THE POPULAR VOTE BUT UNDER 50.

>> AND IT'S LIKE A PERCENTAGE AND A HALF I THINK --I THINK CALIFORNIA'S PRETTY STILL COUNTING.

WILL BE FOR A COUPLE MORE YEARS.

>> WE'LL GET TO THAT.

> >> HOLIDAY TIME IS A BUSY TIME FOR ALL OF US, BUT IT'S ESPECIALLY BUSY FOR STATE LAWMAKERS AT THE END OF A LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

THE LAME DUCK SESSION IS HARDLY LAME.

LOTS OF BILLS BEING CONSIDERED AND PASSED BEFORE THE TERM ENDS AND HAS TO START ALL OVER AGAIN IN JANUARY.

AMONG THE BILLS PASSED, THE HOUSE MEASURE THAT REQUIRES CITIES TO PAY MORE MONEY INTO THE POLICE, FIRE RETIREMENT FUNDS.

THE FUNDS CLAIM THEY NEED MORE MONEY TO AVOID CUTS TO RETIREMENT BENEFITS FOR POLICE OFFICERS AND FIREFIGHTERS.

THE STATEWIDE COST WOULD COME TO AN EXTRA $80 MILLION A YEAR.

CITIES COMPLAINED ON LOUDLY, SAY THEY CANNOT AFFORD IT.

AND WILL BE FORCED TO CUT BUDGETS IN OTHER AREAS.

THE BILL MOVES TO THE SENATE.

LAURA BISCHOFF, WE'LL START WITH THIS ONE.

CITIES SHOULD HAVE TO PAY THE RETIREMENT BENEFITS OF THEIR EMPLOYEES, WHERE IS THE CONTROVERSY HERE?

>> THE CONTROVERSY IS THAT THEY WANT TO BUMP UP THE EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTION RATE WHICH HASN'T BEEN RAISED IN I THINK 40 YEARS.

AND TEN YEARS AGO WHEN THEY DID PENSION REFORM, A LOT OF THE CHANGES FELL ON THE WORKERS.

THEY HAD TO WORK LONGER FOR LESSER BENEFITS.

AND SO NOW THE PENSION FUND SAYS, LOOK, WE NEED MORE MONEY.

AND WE THINK THAT THE EMPLOYERS SHOULD HAVE TO STEP UP.

IT'S A MATTER OF KEEPING A LID ON IT.

THE PERCENTAGE OF PAYROLL.

SO NOW IT'S 19.

5%.

SO 19.

5 CENTS FOR EVERY DOLLAR A POLICE OFFICER IS PAID, 19.

5 CENTS GOES INTO THE --INTO THE EMPLOYER, THE CITY, TOWNSHIP, ANY THAT EMPLOYS SAFETY FORCES HAVE TO PUT IT INTO THE PENSION SYSTEM.

TO GO UP TO 24% IN PERPETUITY MEANS THIS IS AN ONGOING COST THAT GOES ON FOREVER.

AND THE CITIES ARE SAYING THAT THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO HIRE AS MANY OFFICERS, MAYBE NOT PROVIDE AS GOOD OF PAY RAISES.

AND THAT THIS IS --YOU KNOW, PROBLEM ON ALL FRONTS.

I DO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE OTHER SYSTEMS IF THE OHIO POLICE AND FIRE PENSION FUND GETS, THIS SOME OF THE SYSTEMS WILL SAY WE WOULD LIKE ONE, TOO.

>> THAT'S MY QUESTION.

ANY OTHER LOCAL PUBLIC EMPLOYEES -- >> THE - - >> GET THIS HELP FROM THE STATE?

I MEAN, SEEMS LIKE THE COST OF DOING BUSINESS.

OR THE MANDATE.

FULLY FUNDED -- >> THE PROBLEM IS IN LIKE SAY TEACHERS AND THE OTHER ONES, THEY'VE IGNORED SOME OF THE CHANGING DEMOGRAPHICS.

THE GOOD NEWS IS PEOPLE ARE LIVING LONGER, AND THEN THERE'S ALSO PEOPLE RETIRING EARLIER.

THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT FACTORS.

THEN THERE'S THE QUESTIONS OF INDEX FUNDS VERSUS HIGH-PRICE INVESTMENT STAFF AND ARE THEY GETTING A RETURN ON INVESTMENT.

>> ONE THING THAT SOME OF THE CITIES SAY IS THAT THE PENSION FUND SHOULD CONSIDER OTHER OPTIONS, OTHER LITTLE NUMBERS THEY CAN PUSH OR PULL IN THE PENSION SYSTEM.

LIKE MAYBE REDUCING THE COST OF LIVING ALLOWANCE THAT RETIREES ARE GIVEN.

RIGHT NOW IT'S A SET 3%.

AND THEY --IN THE STATE TEACHERS RETIREMENT SYSTEM, THEY PUT A FREEZE ON THE COLA FOR A WHILE.

THAT HACKED OFF A LOT OF THE RETIREES.

>> THE OTHER THING IS --YOU KNOW, I COVERED THE REFORMS THAT LAURA TALKS ABOUT A DECADE OR A LITTLE LONGER AGO, IT WAS POLITICAL IN THAT REPUBLICANS WERE IN THERE, GOVERNOR CASEY --JUST CAME IN AND REPUBLICANS WERE CONTROLLING EVERYTHING AGAIN, AFTER A BRIEF DEMOCRATIC INTERRUPTION.

THEY SAID, NO, WE'RE NOT PAYING ANY MORE FROM THE GOVERNMENT.

"NEW YORK TIMES" --IT IS TIME FOR THE PUBLIC SAFETY FORCES AND PUBLIC EMPLOYEES TO PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE.

WE HAD SENATE BILL 5 AND ALL THAT STUFF EARLY IN THE LAST DECADE.

IRONICALLY NOW IT'S TURNED AROUND TO WHERE SEEMS LIKE THE MAJORITY REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING, YOU KNOW, THOSE CITIES ARE ALL BLUE.

SO WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE OUT OF THEIR HIGHS, AS WELL.

>> NOT JUST BLUE CITIES, THOUGH.

THIS IS SMALL TOWNS, TOWNSHIP --STATEWIDE.

IT'S NOT JUST -- >> I KNOW.

BUT THE BIG --WELL, THE BIGGEST PAY IN AND PAY OUT IS GOING TO BE THE BIG CITIES.

SURE.

>> THIS IS A PROBLEM THAT ALL GOVERNMENTS ARE GOING TO FACE AS PEOPLE GET OLDER.

THE BOOMERS ARE INTO RETIREMENT MODE NOW.

THE YOUNGER WORKERS HAVE TO PAY IT.

>> AS A MEMBER OF SDRS, I HAVE A VEST INTERESTED HERE.

IN FACT, I'VE HEARD LOTS OF ANGER AMONG FELLOW RETIREES IN SDRS ABOUT HOW THEY'VE BEEN TREATED OVER THE LAST NUMBER OF YEARS.

AS LAURA MENTIONED WITH THE COLA ACTUALLY BEING SUSPENDED FOR A WHILE.

EVIDENTLY THEY'RE DOING A $2,400 ONETIME PAYMENT THIS YEAR TO ADJUST FOR THAT.

BUT THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO ARE UPSET.

AND CLEARLY THERE'S -- IT GETS TO QUESTIONS OF THE INVESTMENT STRATEGIES, THE COSTS OF DOING BUSINESS, AND THERE WAS A DANGER HERE THAT --AT SDRS BOARD COULD ACTUALLY GET TEMPTED OR SEDUCED INTO VERY RISKY INVESTMENTS.

THAT HASN'T HAPPENED.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LET'S GET TO OUR LAST TOPIC, THE VOTE OVER OHIO REDISTRICTING REFORM IS OVER.

VOTERS SOUNDLY REJECTED A MEASURE THAT WOULD HAVE APPOINTED AN INDEPENDENT NONPOLITICAL COMMISSION TO DRAW LEGISLATIVE AND CONGRESSIONAL LINES.

SUPPORTERS OF THAT EFFORT ARE REGROUPING AND TRYING TO DETERMINE THEIR NEXT STEPS.

BUT AN OHIO LAWMAKER HAS AN ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION --EXPAND THE SIZE OF THE LEGISLATURE.

STATE SENATOR PHIL BLESSING OF CINCINNATI WANTS TO INCREASE THE SIZE OF THE OHIO HOUSE FROM 99 MEMBERS TO 153 MEMBERS, AND THE OHIO SENATE FROM 33 MEMBERS TO 51 MEMBERS.

THAT MEANS BOTH CHAMBERS WOULD SEE AN INCREASE OF 54%.

BLESSING ARGUES DISTRICTS MORE WOULD BRING PEOPLE TO THE CONSTITUENTS AND LESSEN THE POWER OF GERRYMANDERING.

IS THE SOLUTION MORE LAWMAKERS?

>> PEOPLE ARE OUT THERE BEHIND THEIR SCREENS NOW ROLLING THEIR EYES SAYING, RIGHT.

THAT WILL FIX THINGS.

IT'S --BILL BELSSING HAS PROVED, YOU KNOW, A -- A LAWMAKER WHO THINKS OUTSIDE THE BOX AND THROWS THINGS LIKE THAT.

IT'S KIND OF REFRESHING.

AND I AGREE WITH IT --TALKED ABOUT A LOT.

I GUESS I SAY TWO THINGS.

ONE, COVERED A LOT OF NEW HAMPSHIRE PRIMARIES, AND THEY WERE ALWAYS --SEEMS LIKE EVERYONE HAD ENDORSEMENTS IN STATE LEGISLATORS.

THAT'S BECAUSE NEW HAMPSHIRE, MUCH MORE THAN OHIO, HAS OVER 500.

>> YEAH.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF DEMOCRACY IS BETTER IN NEW HAMPSHIRE OR NOT.

THE OTHER THING IS WHY CAN'T YOU GERRYMANDER MORE DISTRICTS JUST LIKE YOU CAN GERRYMANDER FEWER DISTRICTS?

>> YOUR MATH FOR SMALLER DISTRICTS.

>> YEAH.

>> TERRI?

>> OUR DISTRICTS COMPARED TO OTHERS POPULATION- WISE IS LARGEST.

THE COMPETITION IS WIDE.

>> THAT'S LOGICAL.

BUT LET ME SUMMARIZE THIS IN THREE LETTERS.

D-O-A.

IT'S DEAD ON ARRIVAL.

THE IDEA OF MORE POLITICIANS, MORE OFFICE SPACE, MORE PARKING, MORE STAFF DOESN'T REALLY MAKE IT ANY BETTER, DOESN'T CREATE MORE MONEY.

THIS IS AN INTERESTING IDEA.

IT'S A NICE THEORY, BUT IT'S GOING NOWHERE.

>> VOTERS WOULD HAVE TO APPROVE THIS.

>> A GOOD CAMPAIGN YOU COULDN'T SWING THIS -- >> I THINK YOU WOULD HAVE TO SPEND $1 BILLION TO GET 25% OF THE VOTE.

AND THE EASY ARGUMENT WOULD BE WHAT --THEY'RE NOT DOING A GREAT JOB NOW, AND WE'RE GOING DOUBLE THE COST OF RUNNING THE LEGISLATURE?

AND -- >> 54% -- >> WELL, BUT --NO, THEY'LL PUT IN A SELLRY INCREASE ALSO.

I DON'T THINK --SALARY INCREASE ALSO.

I DON'T THINK PEOPLE ARE READY FOR THAT SOLUTION, THAT'S PUTTING IT MILDLY.

>> LAURA?

>> AS IT IS, THEY ARE CONSIDERING PAY RAISES FOR THEMSELVES FOR STATE LEGISLATORS AS WELL AS ELECTED OFFICIALS.

MY ANALYSIS IS IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

THERE, I'VE SAID IT.

>> I JUST LIKE IT --WE HAVE SOMETHING ELSE TO TALK ABOUT BESIDE THE SAME OLD THING ALL THE TIME.

YOU MENTIONED, IT'S A NOVEL APPROACH.

YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS, THE SENATE DISTRICTS ARE HUGE POPULATION- WISE.

THEY HAVE A LOT OF POWER.

>> YEAH.

KICK SOME THINGS AROUND.

THERE'S A PROPOSAL NOW ABOUT TRYING TO CIRCLE BACK ON ISSUE ONE OF LAST --AUGUST OF LAST YEAR TO UP THE CONSTITUTION THRESHOLD TO GET SOMETHING PASSED.

THEN IF VOTERS DO PASS SOMETHING, IT STICKS FOR A WHILE.

>> THE INITIATED STATUE WOULD BE YOU CAN'T CHANGE IT FOR TWO YEARS.

THAT SEEMS LIKE A REASONABLE -- A REASONABLE LAW.

WE'LL SEE IF REASONABLE LAWS CAN BE PASSED IN THE LEGISLATURE.

> >> TIME NOW FOR OUR "OFF THE RECORD" PARTING SHOTS.

TERRY CASEY?

>> WE TALKED EARLIER ABOUT PENSIONS.

WHEN YOU ADD IT UP, THE POLICE THING THAT GALAPAGOS PASSED IN THE HOUSE --THAT PASSED IN THE HOUSE WON'T GET PASSED IN THE LAME DUCK SENATE.

WHEN YOU ADD UP TEACHERS, OTHER PUBLIC EMPLOYEES, SCHOOL EMPLOYEES, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT $1 BILLION A YEAR IN SHORTFALL THAT WOULD NEED TO BE FIXED.

SO THE QUESTION IS WHO'S GOING TO PAY, HOW'S IT GOING TO WORK?

BUT IT'S A BIG-DOLLAR FIX, NOT A FEW MILLION.

>> HERB?

>> WATCH TO SEE WHO THE GOVERNOR APPOINT FOR THE VACANT SENATE SEAT AND IF IT'S SOMEBODY WHO SURPRISES US, SOMEBODY WHO MIGHT HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR IN TWO YEARS AND GETS APPOINTED TO THE SENATE, THEN SOME OF THE RUMORS OUT THERE ABOUT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WANTING THEIR CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR TO BE VIVEK RAMASWAMY IN TWO YEARS MIGHT HAVE SOME VALIDITY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LAURA?

>> SO KIRK SCHERRING, A LONG LONG-TIME LAWMAKER, SERVED 0 YEARS IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE, PASSED AWAY NOVEMBER 22nd.

HE WAS KIND OF THIS OLD-SCHOOL REPUBLICAN.

HE WORKED ON WHAT I CALL THE DULL BUT IMPORTANT STORIES LIKE STABILIZING THE PENSION SYSTEMS.

HE REALLY KIND OF AVOIDED MORE OF THE CIRCUS-Y ASPECTS OF THE LEGISLATURE.

I APPRECIATED HOW HE ALWAYS WAS WILLING TO TALK TO THE PRESS EVEN IF HE DIDN'T WANT TO TALK TO US.

>> AND DARRYL?

>> I'LL GO PERSONAL.

MANY OF YOU KNOW I RETIRED FROM CHANNEL 6 LAST WEEK.

COUPLE YEARS THERE.

31 YEARS AT THE "DISPATCH. "

THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN A HIGHLIGHT THROUGHOUT THE YEARS.

AND PEOPLE --IT'S INTERESTING, MIKE, FOLKS WHO TALK ABOUT SEEING ME ON TV THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, IT'S ABOUT HALF AND HALF.

CHANNEL 6 AND "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD. "

YOU GIVE ME HALF AN HOUR, THEY GIVE ME A MINUTE AND A HALF.

YOU KNOW.

SO I JUST WANT TO SAY THANKS TO YOU.

THIS IS A FANTASTIC FORUM, COLUMBUS.

FIGHT LIKE CRAZY TO KEEP UP REASONABLE DISCUSSION OF ISSUES LIKE THIS.

IT'S SO RARE IN JOURNALISM TODAY.

THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR ENCOURAGEMENT AND FOR WATCHING.

>> WELL, THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR LONG CAREER IN JOURNALISM AND SERVICE TO THE CITIZENS OF OHIO.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

> >> THAT WILL DO IT FOR "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK, WATCH US ANY TIME AT OUR WEBSITE, WOSU.

ORG/COTR.

WE'RE ALSO ON YOUTUBE AND A PBS VIDEO APP.

FOR OUR CREW AND PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.