>>> SHERROD BROWN SAYS, FAREWELL, FOR NOW.

>>> AND PREPARING FOR DEPORTATIONS IN OHIO.

>>> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

AFTER MORE THAN 30 YEARS IN WASHINGTON, SENATOR SHERROD BROWN SOON RETURNS TO OHIO.

DEFEATED BY REPUBLICAN BERNIE MORENO IN NOVEMBER, BROWN GAVE HIS FAREWELL ADDRESS TO THE SENATE THIS WEEK.

HE THANKED HIS STAFF, HIS FAMILY.

HE URGED HIS COLLEAGUES TO CONTINUE TO ADVOCATE FOR THE WORKING CLASS, AND PERHAPS HE OFFERED A SMALL CLUE ABOUT HIS FUTURE.

>> I'VE ALWAYS LOOKED AT THINGS A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY THAN SOME.

TO ME, POLITICS IS NOT REALLY LEFT OR RIGHT, LIBERAL, OR CONSERVATIVE, IT'S REALLY ABOUT WHOSE SIDE YOU'RE ON.

TO FIGHT FOR, WHOM YOU'RE WILLING TO STAND UP TO.

THAT'S WHAT POPULISM IS ALL ABOUT.

TRUE POPULISM LIFTS ALL PEOPLE.

TRUE POPULISM DOESN'T TEAR OTHERS DOWN.

TRUE POPULISM DOESN'T PLAY TO RACE AND DIVISION.

TRUE POPULISM IS ESSENTIALLY ABOUT THE DIGNITY OF WORK.

TO MY COLLEAGUES, THIS IS MY LAST SPEECH ON THE SENATE FLOOR, BUT IT'S NOT, I PROMISE YOU, THE LAST TIME YOU'LL HEAR FROM ME.

THANK YOU.

>> "NOT THE LAST TIME" WE WILL HEAR FROM HIM.

THAT COULD MEAN A LOT OF THINGS, THAT COULD MEAN A GIG ON MSNBC, IT COULD MEAN A RUN FOR GOVERNOR OR U.S. SENATE IN TWO YEARS.

WHAT IS THE SPECULATIONS?

>> ALL THE OPTIONS ARE ON THE TABLE.

IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING, THE SPEECH REALLY ENCAPSULATED WHO HE WAS AS A CANDIDATE AND A SENATOR, TALKING ABOUT WORKERS AND HOW THE PARTY REALLY NEEDS TO MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION.

HE ALSO TALKED TO REPORTERS ABOUT HOW THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY NEEDS TO BE LESS OF A CORPORATION, SO THAT IS THE MESSAGE I THINK HE IS GOING TO TAKE FORWARD.

NOW, DOES THAT MEAN HE IS GOING TO CHALLENGE WHOEVER DeWINE PICS FOR U.S. SENATE?

THAT IS ON THE TABLE, AS WELL AS A GUBERNATORIAL BID IN 2026.

HE IS A POPULAR CANDIDATE IN OHIO, BUT OHIO HAS REALLY CHANGED IN THE YEARS THAT HE HAS BEEN IN THAT SEAT.

>> JOE, WAS THAT HIS FIRST CAMPAIGN SPEECH OF 2026, OR YOU BELIEVE IT WAS A FAREWELL SPEECH?

>> I BELIEVE IT WAS JUST A FAREWELL SPEECH.

AT THE SAME TIME, THE CHOICES WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, THE STROKE OF GENIUS WOULD BE FOR HIM TO GO TO MSNBC, OR CNN, OR WHATEVER, AND THEN IN TWO YEARS, GO AHEAD AND RUN FOR THE SPECIAL ELECTION.

YOU WOULD HAVE TO RUN AGAIN IN A COUPLE OF YEARS.

BUT, AS WE SAID HERE TODAY, I THINK THERE IS LITTLE DOUBT THAT HE WOULD RUN AGAIN.

>> WHICH RACE DO YOU THINK SUITS HIM BETTER?

GO BACK TO THE SENATE?

I MEAN, HE LOST.

CAN YOU GO BACK AGAIN?

OR, IS HE AN EXECUTIVE?

HE HASN'T BEEN AN EXECUTIVE SINCE HE WAS SECRETARY OF STATE, IN CONGRESS FOR 30 ODD YEARS.

>> I DON'T THINK THAT WAS A PROBLEM.

WHEN I WAS YOUNGER, GOVERNORS WANTED TO BE SENATORS.

NOW, IT SEEMS LIKE SENATORS WANT TO BE GOVERNORS.

I THINK HE WILL RUN FOR GOVERNOR.

YOU KNOW, HE ONLY LOST BY THREE PLUS POINTS, AND TRUMP CARRIED OHIO BY ALMOST 12, 11 1/2.

TRUMP, OF COURSE, WHATEVER HE RUNS FOR --IF HE RUNS FOR ANYTHING --TRUMP WILL ENDORSE THE OPPONENT.

AND NOT THE SAME COPPED AS BEING PRESIDENT, SO HE WILL RUN IN A NONPRESIDENTIAL YEAR, IF HE RUNS FOR GOVERNOR, HE WILL NOT BE RUNNING AGAINST AN INCUMBENT, AND AS JESSIE SAID, HE IS WELL KNOWN.

HE IS A VOTE-GETTER, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

HE JUST HAPPENED TO LOSE THE LAST ONE.

>> JESSIE, DOES IT MATTER WHICH REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE SEEMS TO HAVE THE INSIDE TRACK FOR THESE TWO SEATS?

IF IT IS VIVEK RAMASWAMY WHO HAS THE INSIDE TRACK ON THE GOVERNORS RACE, YOU CAN SEE, YOU KNOW, BROWN, THE WORKING- CLASS GUY VERSUS THE 1% ARE IN THAT RACE, BUT OF COURSE VIVEK WOULD PROBABLY GET TRUMP'S ENDORSEMENT.

JOHN HOUSTON, COULD RUN FOR SENATOR OR GOVERNOR, MAINSTREAM REPUBLICAN WELL KNOWN IN THE STATE.

>> THAT'S TRUE.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS THE CANDIDATE SO MUCH AS IT IS THE POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT HE WILL BE LOOKING AT, WHOEVER HE RUNS AGAINST IS GOING TO HAVE THE SUPPORT OF DONALD TRUMP, THE PRESIDENT-ELECT.

WE WILL SEE IN TWO YEARS IF THE POLICIES TRUMP ISN'T LAMENTING HIS POLICIES TRUMP --OHIO LIKES OR THINGS THEY WILL VOTE AGAINST IN THE MIDTERM ELECTION.

>> I DON'T SEE A RUN FOR GOVERNOR.

NOTWITHSTANDING THE CYCLICAL THING THAT YOU REFERRED TO, MIKE, THAT NOW SENATORS WANT TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR, IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE HE WOULD HAVE AN OVERLOADED LEGISLATURE, OF REPUBLICANS.

REDISTRICTING ISSUE, AND I AM NOT SURE THAT IT WOULD BE GOOD FOR HIM, I AM NOT SURE THAT IT WOULD BE GOOD EVEN FOR THE STATE.

>> WHO ELSE IS THERE, JOE, ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE OTHER THAN SHERROD BROWN?

>> JENNIFER BRENNER WOULD BE A POSSIBILITY.

I'M A GREAT FAN OF HERS.

THE PROBLEM IS WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO SET UP A LINEUP, AND WE ALL KNOW THIS, THIS IS A PROBLEM DATING BACK TO 2010.

>> HOW ABOUT TIM RYAN, WHO HAS BEEN MENTIONED AS POSSIBLY RUNNING FOR ONE OF THESE TWO STATES, AND SHERROD BROWN RUNNING AS A TICKET, TWO SORT OF MODERATE DEMOCRATS, FIELDING THE WORKING-CLASS MESSAGE FROM NORTHEAST OHIO.

IS THAT TOO GIMMICKY, MIKE, OR MIGHT THAT WORK?

>> NO, I DON'T THINK IT IS TOO GIMMICKY.

I REALLY THOUGHT RYAN RAN A PRETTY GOOD CAMPAIGN LAST TIME.

I MEAN, AGAIN, HE WENT AFTER REPUBLICAN VOTERS, HE DIDN'T GET ENOUGH OF THEM, BUT I THINK HE IS A CONFIDENT MAN, AND OBVIOUSLY I'M SURE HE WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED IN RUNNING, BUT GOOD CANDIDATES.

OR, AS JOE SAID, BRENNER WOULD BE A GOOD CANDIDATE.

I MEAN, THE DEMOCRATS DON'T HAVE ANYBODY IN A LINE WE KNOW THEY ARE GOING TO GO TO, BUT I STILL THINK THEY HAVE CAPABLE PEOPLE WHO WILL PUT UP QUITE A RUN IN NOVEMBER.

>> AND THE QUESTION IS MONEY.

>> TWO OTHER NAMES, AMY AFTON, SHE PUT OUT THAT SHE WAS CONSIDERING A RUN AND WILL LET US KNOW AFTER THE FIRST OF THE YEAR.

ALLISON RUSSO, DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKER, WELL-KNOWN IN POLITICAL CIRCLES.

MAYBE NOT THE SAME NAME IDEAS AMONG DEMOCRATS.

>> YES, THOSE ARE CERTAINLY TWO NAMES WHO ARE CONSIDERING BIDS FOR GOVERNOR AND I THINK WE WILL LEARN MORE NEXT YEAR.

THE PROBLEM FOR ANY DEMOCRAT RUNNING IN THE STATE OF OHIO IS THE POLITICS, AND THE MAP HAS REALLY SHIFTED.

SHERROD BROWN DEFEATED MIKE DeWINE BACK IN 2006, NOW YOU ARE LOOKING AT DEMOCRATS HAVE LOST THE APPELLATION REGION, THEY HAVE LOST YOUNGSTOWN, THE HUNTING VALLEY REGION, SO IS THAT BACK THE OTHER WAY?

OR, WOULD THAT BE THE SAME EIGHT COUNTIES THAT THEY KEEP WINNING?

>> THE FAREWELL SPEECH --YOU KNOW, FAREWELL, I ALWAYS LIKE FAREWELL AND CONCESSION SPEECHES, BECAUSE NOT THAT I LIKE TO CELEBRATE SOMEBODY'S LOSS OR DEPARTURE, BUT YOU KIND OF GET TO HEAR THE REAL CANDIDATE, YOU KNOW?

THEY CAN LET THEIR HAIR DOWN A LITTLE BIT, THEY CAN LET THEIR GUARD DOWN, THEY CAN GET OFF THE TALKING POINTS.

YOU LISTENED TO THAT SPEECH, ONE OF THE MORE EFFECTIVE HE GAVE THAT SPEECH MORE OFTEN DURING THE CAMPAIGN.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THE CAMPAIGN DRIVES YOU.

THE CAMPAIGN DRIVES WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO SAY AND WHAT YOUR OPPONENT IS SAYING AT THE SAME TIME, AND YOU ALSO HAVE TO BE BRIEFED, AND YOU HAVE TO GO FROM YOUNGSTOWN, TO TOLEDO, BACK TO CLEVELAND, ALL IN A MATTER OF HOURS.

AND AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THAT, YOU REALLY CAN'T GET INTO THE WHOLE NITTY-GRITTY OF WHAT YOU FEEL.

BUT, HE SAID ONE THING AND HE EMPHASIZED ONE THING.

I AGREE 100%, I THINK HE IS A TRUE POPULIST.

TRUMP IS NOT A POPULIST, UNDER ANY COMMON DEFINITION OF THE WORD.

BUT, I THINK HE IS WHAT MANY DEMOCRATS USED TO BE, 20, 30, 40, MAYBE 60 YEARS AGO.

I THINK HE IS FOR THE WORKING MAN.

>> WE WILL SEE IF THAT MESSAGE LASTS UNTIL THE NEXT ELECTION CYCLE.

THE LATEST SESSION OF THE OHIO LEGISLATURE IS A WRAP.

LAWMAKERS MET THIS WEEK AND TOOK THEIR FINAL VOTES IN THE LAME-DUCK PORTION OF THAT SESSION.

THERE WERE A LOT OF VOTES.

LAWMAKERS PASSED BILLS THAT REQUIRED SCHOOLS NOTIFY PARENTS IF STUDENTS LEARN ABOUT SEXUALITY TOPICS.

THAT BILL ALSO REQUIRES SCHOOL DISTRICTS TO ALLOW STUDENTS TO LEAVE DURING THE DAY FOR RELIGIOUS LESSONS.

ANOTHER BILL AIMS TO INCREASE THE TRANSPARENCY OF HOSPITAL BILLS, IT MADE IT EASIER TO EXPEL SCHOOL STUDENTS DEEMED DANGEROUS, THEY FAILED TO GET THEMSELVES AND OTHER ELECTED LEADERS A PAY RAISE.

BUT, THEY HONORED DOLLY PARTON WITH A SPECIAL LICENSE PLATE.

THE MATH, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THEY WERE VERY PRODUCTIVE THESE LAST FEW WEEKS, MUCH MORE THAN THE OTHER TIMES DURING THIS SESSION.

>> YEAH, THIS TWO YEAR LEGISLATIVE SESSION, WHICH JUST CAME TO A CLOSE, WHICH IS WHY WE PASSED SO MANY BILLS ON WEDNESDAY, HAS BEEN A REALLY ODD ONE.

WE HAVE HAD THE SENATE PRESIDENT AND SPEAKER BOTH RUNNING FOR THE SAME JOB OF THE SPEAKER, WE HAD HEALTH --HOUSE REPUBLICANS REALLY FRACTURED FOR MOST OF THE TWO YEAR CYCLE, SO 2023 WAS ONE OF THE LEAST PRODUCTIVE YEARS IN HISTORY, AS FAR AS LAWMAKING GOES IN OHIO.

SO, PERHAPS THEY MADE UP FOR IT IN THE FINAL DAYS OF THIS NUMBER, SO THERE WAS QUITE A BIT AND WE COULD DIG INTO SOME OF IT.

>> MIKE, THE PARENTS' BILL OF RIGHTS, AS IT IS CALLED, THE ONE THAT REQUIRES SCHOOLS TO NOTIFY PARENTS OF SEXUALITY TOPICS AND ALSO ALLOWS STUDENTS TO LEAVE DURING THE DAY FOR RELIGIOUS INSTRUCTION, DO WE EXPECT THAT TO GET CHALLENGED IN COURT, DO WE THINK?

>> WELL, I COULD SEE WHERE IT CERTAINLY COULD GET CHALLENGED IN COURT, WITH THE --I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHEN I WAS READING THIS STUFF.

I THINK YOU HAVE TO LET THE SCHOOL KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO GO --I ASSUME IT IS A BRIEF PERIOD OF TIME, THEY ARE NOT LEAVING EVERY DAY, FOR HALF A DAY, THAT SORT OF THING.

I'M JUST SURPRISED THEY HAD IT IN THERE.

SEXUALITY BILL, I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY THEY HAVE IT AND WHY THEY WOULD WANT TO NOTIFY PARENTS, AND SO FORTH.

BUT, THE RELIGIOUS THING, IT JUST SEEMS VERY ODD TO ME.

>> MY WIFE TESTIFIED AGAINST THE PROGRAM.

SHE IS AN ORDAINED PRESBYTERIAN MINISTER IN THE WORTHINGTON BOARD OF EDUCATION.

AND WHAT HAD HAPPENED, THE EARLIER PROGRAM IN GAHANNA HAD RESULTED IN NOT THE ADMINISTRATION, NOT THE PEOPLE CONDUCTING THE PROGRAM, BUT THE KIDS THEMSELVES, TO BASICALLY, IN THEIR WORDS, BULLY OTHER KIDS THAT WERE NOT GOING INTO THE PROGRAM.

AND I THINK ONE OF THE CORNERSTONES OF MOST RELIGIONS --AND CERTAINLY CHRISTIANITY --IS THAT IT IS A RELIGION THAT IS EVANGELICAL.

INTO IT ARE GOING TO WANT TO CONVINCE THE OTHER KIDS TO GO OUT AND THAT CROSSED THE LINE.

I DON'T THINK IT CROSSED THE LEGAL LINE, BY THE WAY.

I DON'T THINK IT IS A CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUE.

BUT, IT WAS A MANAGEMENT ISSUE.

>> AS THEY SAY, THIS IS OPEN TO ALL RELIGIOUS GROUPS, AND OF COURSE THERE IS THIS GROUP IN MARYSVILLE, THE SATANIC TEMPLE AND REASONED ALLIANCE, WHICH APPARENTLY IS GOING TO TRY TO HAVE A SESSION OF THE HELLION ACADEMY OF INDEPENDENT LEARNING PALE WITHDRAW STUDENTS FROM EDGEWOOD ELEMENTARY SCHOOL EVERY DAY, OR ONCE A WEEK, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WE WILL SEE IF THAT WORKS OUT.

THAT IS RELIGION, AS WELL, RIGHT, JESSIE?

>> IT IS RELIGION NEUTRAL, THAT PARTICULAR PROGRAM.

PROBABLY WASN'T THE INTENDED CONSEQUENCE OF THE SPONSORS OF THE BILL, BUT I GUESS YOU WOULD HAVE TO ASK THEM.

>> IT MADE THE ROUNDS ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

>> YEAH, YEAH.

IT WAS LARGELY IN RESPONSE TO A COUPLE OF CENTRAL OHIO SCHOOL THIS PARTICULAR GROUP, LIFELINE ECONOMY, THEY DIDN'T WANT THEM TAKING STUDENTS OFF CAMPUS DURING SCHOOL HOURS FOR THESE RELIGIOUS LESSONS.

AND THEY WEREN'T INTERRUPTING THINGS LIKE MATH AND ENGLISH, BUT JUST THE DISRUPTION OF THE KIDS LEAVING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SCHOOL DAY, COMING BACK, AND JUST MAKING SURE PEOPLE ARE GOING IN AND OUT.

CERTAINLY, LEGISLATURE DIDN'T LIKE THAT, AND DECIDED TO PASS A LAW TO PUT AN END TO IT.

>> THEY DID NOT GIVE THEMSELVES A PAY RAISE, WHICH IS ALWAYS A LAME-DUCK SPECIAL.

BUT, AS MUCH AS LAWMAKERS GIVING THEMSELVES A PAY RAISE, IT IS OTHER ELECTED OFFICIALS WHO LOST OUT ON THIS WITH INFLATION.

THIS IS A MODERATE INCREASE.

MIKE, YOU CAN'T HIT THE LAWMAKERS FOR GIVING THEMSELVES A RAISE, THEY HAVE BILLS LIKE THE REST OF US, RIGHT?

>> WELL, THEY TOOK EVERYBODY ELSE WITH THEM, TOO.

YOU CAN'T COME IN THE ELECTED POSITIONS, LIKE JUDICIAL RACES AND SO FORTH, YOU CAN'T GET IT SO, WHEN THEY PASS, THAT IS FOUR MORE YEARS.

THE PEOPLE ARE ELECTED TO FOUR YEAR TERMS, THEY DON'T GET ANYTHING.

IT WAS ALWAYS HECTIC WHEN WE WOULD DO THAT.

THEY WOULD ALWAYS WAIT UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE, EVEN WHEN YOU GOT IT.

IT IS STANDING IN LINE, AND I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS IN --OR, MOST OF THE PROSECUTORS WERE REPUBLICAN.

WE WERE MEETING WITH THE SENATE, I FORGET WHO IT WAS, REPUBLICANS IN THE SENATE, BUT HE BASICALLY STIFFED US AND WOULD NOT MEET WITH US.

AND LET ME TELL YOU, ONE OF THOSE REPUBLICAN PROSECUTORS -- [ LAUGHTER ] BUT, IT WAS JUST HECTIC, IT WAS THAT KIND OF A THING, YOU KNOW?

>> THIS ONLY PASSES IN A LAME- DUCK SESSION.

THERE IS NO WAY THEY DO THIS BEFORE ELECTION DAY, IT JUST WON'T WORK.

>> BUT, THEY DID PASS OTHER STUFF, AND QUITE FRANKLY, SPEAKING TO POPULISM, I THINK IT IS QUITE POPULAR.

ABOUT THE DRIVER'S LICENSES, >> HARDER TO SUSPEND, EASIER TO GET BACK, FOR DRIVER'S LICENSES, CORRECT?

>> IN THE LAST FEW SESSIONS, WE HAVE SEEN SOME THINGS -- MIKE, YOU REMEMBER, THEY MADE EXPUNGEMENT EASIER, AND EXPANDED THE ROOM WITH WHICH YOU CAN NAVIGATE EXPUNGEMENT.

AND THEN, I AM SEEING THIS.

I AM SURPRISED AND ENCOURAGED, THAT A DEEPLY REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE DID THAT, SO MORE POWER TO THEM.

>> THE HOSPITAL BILL TRANSPARENCY LAW, WHICH BASICALLY FORCES HOSPITALS TO BE MORE PRECISE ABOUT HOW MUCH THINGS COST, PRESUMABLY, PATIENTS, CUSTOMERS CAN SHOP.

IS THAT A SURPRISE, JESSIE, GIVEN THE HOSPITAL'S LOBBY IN THE STATE BEING PRETTY POWERFUL?

>> RIGHT, IT WAS PRETTY BACK AND FORTH, TOUCH AND GO IF THAT WAS GOING TO PASS, EVEN IN THE FINAL MINUTES.

SO, IN THAT REGARD, IT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A SURPRISE.

THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE THEM TO LIST CERTAIN PROCEDURES THAT YOU CAN SHOP FOR ON THEIR ACCESSIBLE TO PATIENTS, AND THE IDEA IS, YOU KNOW, ONE THAT CONSERVATIVES CAN GET BEHIND -- CAPITALISM.

YOU CAN GET TO SHOP FOR SOMETHING, A PROCEDURE YOU MIGHT NEED.

THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF TEETH TO IT, THE OHIO DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, THEY CAN GET IN TROUBLE IF THEY ARE NOT LISTING THESE THINGS, BUT SOME OF THE HARSHER PENALTIES WERE TAKEN OUT OF THE BILL, SO IT WAS A COMPROMISE, AS SO MANY OF THESE THINGS ARE IN THE FINAL DAYS.

>>> IT'S BEEN A YEAR SINCE OHIO VOTERS ENACTED LEGAL SALES OF RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA.

SALES BEGAN IN THE SUMMER, BUT THE RULE MAKING CONTINUES.

STATE REGULATORS NOW ARE CONSIDERING RULES ON HOW MARIJUANA RETAILERS MARKET THEIR PRODUCT.

THE PROPOSED RULES WOULD BAN MOST ADVERTISING.

THE STATE WOULD PROHIBIT MARIJUANA ADS ON RADIO, TV, THE INTERNET, AND ON BILLBOARDS, LIKE THIS ONE IN ANN ARBOR.

MICHIGAN DOES NOT BAN BILLBOARDS AND THE STATE UP THERE HAS A LOT OF THEM.

STATE LEADERS FEAR THE ADVERTISING WILL BE SEEN BY PEOPLE UNDER THE AGE OF 18.

REGULATORS RECONSIDER, THEY SAY THE LIMITS GO TOO FAR AND WOULD HURT THEIR BUSINESS.

MIKE, THE LAW WAS SUPPOSED TO TREAT MARIJUANA LIKE ALCOHOL.

I SEE MY FAIR SHARE OF BUD LIGHT, AND COORS LIGHT, AND CROWN ROYAL ADS ON BILLBOARDS.

WHY NOT TREAT ADVERTISING THE SAME WAY WE TREAT ALCOHOL, ALCOHOL AND MARIJUANA?

>> WELL, ALCOHOL AND MARIJUANA, MARIJUANA IS MUCH CLOSER TO CIGARETTES THEN IT IS ALCOHOL.

I DON'T THINK, IF THEY BAN IT FROM THE INTERNET, TV, BILLBOARDS, RADIO, EVERYTHING, I THINK IT WILL HAVE A VERY MINOR EFFECT.

I MEAN, LOOK, YOU CAN'T HAVE THE CIGARETTE ADS ON --I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THAT HAS BEEN, 10, 15, 20 YEARS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

IF PEOPLE WANT TO SMOKE, DO THEY KNOW WHERE TO GET THEM?

OF COURSE, THEY DO.

IF PEOPLE WANT MARIJUANA, IT IS GOING TO BE SO EASY, THAT I DON'T THINK IF THEY BAN THE TO HAVE ANY REAL EFFECT ON THE BIG PEOPLE THAT PRODUCE IT AND SELL IT.

>> DO YOU SEE A LOT OF BILLBOARDS?

>> YOU KNOW, YOU SEE THE BILLBOARDS AND I'M GLAD YOU ASKED ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE THE INTERESTING THING, THE EXCUSE FOR THE NO ADVERTISING IS, YOU DON'T WANT TO ENCOURAGE CHILDREN TO, YOU KNOW, PROMOTE IT FOR CHILDREN.

BUT, THE BILLBOARDS, VERY SIMILAR TO THE ONE THAT YOU SHOWED, ARE REALLY KIND OF INNOCUOUS.

REALLY SORT OF LIKE, "OH, YEAH, WE ARE A PLACE YOU CAN BUY POT."

BUT, THERE WERE MAYBE ONE OR TWO THAT WERE SOMEWHAT HUMOROUS, BUT OUTSIDE OF THAT, THEY DON'T REALLY TARGET CHILDREN.

THEY ARE KIND OF, AGAIN, INNOCUOUS.

AND BY THE WAY, I WANTED TO PIGGYBACK ON SOMETHING MIKE SAID ON THE CIGARETTES -- BUT, AS YOU KNOW, CIGARETTE CONSUMPTION IS DOWN, SO BY NOT HAVING THE ADVERTISING AND THE INCLUSION IN MEDIA, AND SO ON, IT DOES DISCOURAGE THE -- >> WELL, IT MAY DISCOURAGE IT, CIGARETTE SMOKING IS DOWN, OF COURSE.

BUT, I THINK THE MAIN THING IS NOT THE ADVERTISING, IT IS THE MONEY INVOLVED.

I MEAN, I USED TO SMOKE FOR THIRTYSOMETHING YEARS, AND I WOULD BUY CIGARETTES --I FORGOT WHAT I PAID FOR THEM, A CARTON, $.80, $.90, NOW THEY ARE LIKE EIGHT DOLLARS OR NINE DOLLARS FOR A PACK, I THINK THAT IS WHAT HAS DRIVEN PEOPLE TO STOP SMOKING, NOT THE ADVERTISING.

>> JESSIE, IS THERE ANY CONCERN ON THIS LAW THAT THE LEGISLATORS AND RULE MAKERS ARE TRYING TO HURT THE BUSINESS?

THEY DIDN'T WANT IT IN THE FIRST PLACE, BUT NOW THEY ARE TRYING TO LIMIT SALES AND KILL IT IN A DIFFERENT WAY, OR MAKE IT NOT AS HEALTHY, IN A WAY?

>> YEAH, I THINK FROM THE BEGINNING, THE REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE AND MIKE DeWINE, MOST OF THEM HAVE SAID THAT THEY ARE GOING TO ACCEPT WHAT THE VOTERS DID, BUT THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT THEY WANTED, IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT THEY WOULD HAVE PASSED, IF NOT FOR THE VOTERS GOING FOR THE BALLOT BOX.

IF THERE ARE WAYS TO MAKE IT LESS ACCESSIBLE, PARTICULARLY TO CHILDREN, THAT IS AN ISSUE THAT GOVERNOR MIKE DeWINE FEELS STRONGLY ABOUT, THAT IS SOMETHING THEY WILL FEEL STRONGLY ON.

BUT, WE SAW THROUGH LAME-DUCK THERE, AN EFFORT TO GET RID OF THIS DIET WEED DELTA-8 THAT WASN'T SUCCESSFUL, EITHER.

SO, THERE IS A LOT OF GRIDLOCK ON THIS ISSUE, IT IS HARD FOR THEM TO DECIDE WHICH PATH FORWARD.

>> WE, AS A STATE, OR JUST TRYING TO GET USED TO THE FACT THAT IT IS LEGAL, NOW.

>>> ANYWAY, LAST TOPIC -- PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS VOTED TO START WHAT HE HAS CALLED MASS DEPORTATIONS OF UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS SOON AFTER HE TAKES OFFICE.

HERE IN OHIO, LOCAL OFFICIALS, ADVOCATES, AND IMMIGRANTS WONDER WHAT THAT WILL MEAN.

THIS WEEK, GOVERNOR DEWINE JOINED OTHER REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS INPROMISING TO HELP.

HE AND OTHERS RELEASED A STATEMENT THAT SAYS, "REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS REMAIN FULLY COMMITTED TO SUPPORTING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S EFFORTS TO DEPORT DANGEROUS CRIMINALS, GANG MEMBERS, AND TERRORISTS WHO ARE IN THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALLY.

WE UNDERSTAND THE DIRECT THREAT THESE CRIMINAL ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS POSE TO PUBLIC SAFETY AND OUR NATIONAL SECURITY, AND WE WILL DO EVERYTHING IN OUR POWER TO ASSIST IN REMOVING THEM FROM OUR COMMUNITIES."

THAT HELP ACCORDING TO THE IGA, WOULD INCLUDE USING THE OHIO NATIONAL GUARD.

JOE MAS, WHAT ARE THE FEARS ABOUT WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN?

>> KEEPING PEOPLE OUT OF COURT.

WE HAVE BEEN LIVING IN AN ENVIRONMENT SINCE 1996, SINCE THE AVAILABILITY OF DRIVER'S LICENSES, FOR EXAMPLE, HAVE BEEN TAKEN AWAY FROM PEOPLE WHO COULDN'T PROVE THEY WERE IN THIS COUNTRY LEGALLY.

WITH THE IDEA, WITH THE EXPRESSED IDEA AT THE TIME, UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE DO HAVE TO GO TO COURT FREQUENTLY IF THEY ARE CAUGHT DRIVING WITHOUT A LICENSE.

IF WE CAN CUT BACK ON THAT, THEN THE CHANCES --AND BY THE WAY, SINCE THAT TIME, 90% -- AND THIS IS DURING TRUMP ONE, DURING BIDEN, DURING OBAMA.

A REST, IF YOU WANT TO USE THAT WORD, DETENTION, FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE DEPORTED.

NOT BECAUSE OF SERIOUS CRIMES, BUT BECAUSE OF WHAT I CALL THE NEW JIM CROW LAWS.

INVENTING SOME REASON WHY THESE PEOPLE SHOULD BE PERSECUTED AND TAKEN THROUGH THE SYSTEM BECAUSE IT IS REALLY EASY FOR IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS IMPORTANT TO FIND THEM ON THE DOCKET.

>> WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT STATEMENT, THEY HIGHLIGHTED TERRORISTS, CRIMINALS, SERIOUS CRIMES.

IT WAS NOT POINTED OUT THAT THEIR ONLY CRIME WAS CROSSING THE BORDER ILLEGALLY.

DO YOU THINK GOVERNOR MIKE DeWINE COULD GET BEHIND THIS?

>> YES, WHEN YOU LISTEN TO GOVERNOR MIKE DeWINE TALK ABOUT THIS TOPIC, IT USUALLY COMES IN THE CONTEXT OF HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS IN SPRINGFIELD WHO, TO BE CLEAR, ARE HERE LEGALLY, THROUGH A LEGAL PROCESS.

HE IS SAYING, ON THE ONE HAND, HE WANTS OHIO TO BE A WELCOMING STATE.

HE REALIZES THAT IS ESSENTIAL, BOTH FOR ECONOMIC PURPOSES, BUT ALSO THE STATE'S POPULATION IS DWINDLING, SO IF WE CAN WELCOME MORE PEOPLE HERE, THAT MIGHT HELP US KEEP SOME CONGRESSIONAL SEATS AND OTHER THINGS, KEEP THESE COMMUNITIES DRIVING.

BUT, ON THE OTHER HAND, HE IS A REPUBLICAN AND NEEDS TO BE SUPPORTIVE OF DONALD TRUMP'S POLICIES, PROBABLY.

SO, HE MAKES THAT DIVISION BETWEEN PEOPLE HERE ILLEGALLY AND PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE THROUGH LEGAL PROCESSES, WHILE ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THERE IS A LOT OF REFORM THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL TO ADDRESS THAT.

>> PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID HE WANTS TO REMOVE THE PROTECTIVE STATUS OF THE HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS IN SPRINGFIELD, THAT THEY NOW ENJOY.

MIKE DeWINE SUPPORTS THOSE IMMIGRANTS, OF COURSE.

IF TRUMP ASKS HIM TO ORDER THE NATIONAL GUARD TO DEPORT THE HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS IN SPRINGFIELD, THAT PUTS MIKE DeWINE IN A TOUGH SPOT, DOESN'T IT, MIKE?

>> IT PUTS THEM IN A VERY TOUGH SPOT.

THIS WHOLE PROBLEM IS ALMOST UNSOLVABLE.

I DO THINK THAT WHAT YOU READ, IF THAT IS WHAT TRUMP DOES -- WE ARE NOT THROWING OUT PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE ILLEGALLY, BUT ARE SOLID CITIZENS, WHO CONTRIBUTE -- IF WE JUST TAKE THOSE PEOPLE --AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PERCENTAGE IS, I AM SURE IT IS RELATIVELY LOW --BUT THOSE CHARGED WITH SERIOUS OFFENSES AND SO FORTH, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT DRIVING WITHOUT A LICENSE AND THINGS LIKE THAT, I'M TALKING ABOUT FELONIES AND WE KNOW THEY ARE OUT THERE.

SO, SO-AND-SO ARRESTED, SO AND SO HERE ILLEGALLY.

I DON'T KNOW THAT ANYBODY WOULD REALLY BE AGAINST THAT.

BUT, IF WE START TALKING THE NORMAL PERSON, WHO IS NOT A CRIMINAL, WHICH IS 95% OF THEM, OR PROBABLY -- >> HIGHER THAN THAT.

>> HIGHER THAN THAT.

IF WE START TAKING THOSE PEOPLE OUT, THERE IS GOING TO BE SOME TRAGEDY BECAUSE THOSE PEOPLE ARE REALLY GOING TO GET HURT, AND NOBODY, I DON'T THINK, IS GOING TO GET THEM OUT.

ON THE OTHER HAND, THEY HAVE TO DO SOME PROCESS TO BE HERE LEGALLY.

>> GOVERNOR DeWINE ACTUALLY SAID SOMETHING EVERYONE IS IN AGREEMENT WITH, INCLUDING PEOPLE OF THE IMMIGRANT COMMUNITY, SUCH AS MYSELF.

PEOPLE THAT COMMIT CRIMES.

THE PROBLEM IS, THAT IS NOT WHAT TRUMP IS DOING.

TRUMP IS IDENTIFYING THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY AS ALL BEING CRIMINALS, RAPISTS, DRUG DEALERS, AND CONVINCING THE POPULACE --INCLUDING MANY DEMOCRATS, APPARENTLY --THAT THAT IS WHAT THE COMMUNITY IS.

THE DATA DOESN'T SHOW IT, BUT WITHOUT THAT PREDICATE, WITHOUT PROVING THAT THOSE PEOPLE ARE BAD PEOPLE, HE IS GOING TO HAVE TROUBLE BEING ABLE TO EXECUTE THE REST OF THE PLAN.

AND SO, I THINK THE GOVERNOR WAS VERY CAREFUL WITH THAT.

>> LET'S GET TO THE "OFF THE RECORD," PARTING SHOT.

YOU, FIRST.

>> I WANT TO GO WITH WHAT I STARTED IN THE PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE IN 1971.

AND WE SEE WHERE WE ARE NOW, IN 1971, POSSESSION OF MARIJUANA --NOW, WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT KILOS, JUST POSSESSION OF MARIJUANA --WAS AN INDETERMINATE SENTENCE OF 10 TO SALES WAS 2240.

CHANGED QUITE A BIT, HASN'T IT?

[ LAUGHTER ] >> THE PEOPLE RESPECT THAT, MIKE.

>> MIKE, HAVING LOOKED INTO THIS WHOLE THING OF IMMIGRANTS AND DEPORTATION, I FEAR THAT OUR OWN QUESTIONING FAITH IN THE CONSEQUENCES OF AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM HAS BLINDED US TO THE POSSIBILITY THAT OUR COUNTRY IS POISED TO CROSS THE LINE OF CONDUCT, THAT IS IN VIOLATION OF INTERNATIONAL NORMS.

MASS ARRESTS AND DEPORTATIONS, DETENTION CAMPS, PROPAGANDA CLAIMING AN ETHNIC GROUP IS CRIMINAL, SUCH AS I JUST MENTIONED, AND THEY USE FEAR AS A TOOL TO ACCOMPLISH AN POLITICAL GOAL, ARE ALL CITED AS ELEMENTS OF ETHNIC CLEANSING, STATE-SPONSORED TERRORISM, AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY, FOR THE GENOCIDE CONVENTION.

AMERICA, HISTORICALLY, HAS SPENT BLOOD FIGHTING THOSE THINGS, SO, IN THIS CASE, I THINK WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY, AND HE IS US.

>> JESSIE?

>> THERE WAS A BILL INTRODUCED THIS WEEK FROM REPRESENTATIVE BRENDAN AND DEAN, SO BIPARTISAN, TO ELIMINATE THE LAME DUCK SESSION.

WE TALKED ABOUT GOOD THINGS THAT HAVE GOTTEN DONE BUT AS PEOPLE WHERE THERE AT 2:00 A.M., IT MIGHT HAVE SOME MERIT.

>> I WILL JUST WISH EVERYBODY A WONDERFUL CHRISTMAS, HAPPY HOLIDAYS, WHATEVER YOU CELEBRATE, HANUKKAH, KWANZAA, WHATEVER, HAD A GREAT NEW YEAR, AS WELL.

>>> THAT'S "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK, AND YOU CAN WATCH US ANYTIME ON OUR WEBSITE.

FOR OUR CREW AND MIKE THOMPSON, HAVE A GOOD WEEK.